From Marine Grit To Story Craft With Gunny Mac’s Creator

A lot of people say they want to write a book, but what they really mean is they want to have written one. We get honest about the gap between those two things, and why the difference is almost never talent. It’s grit, craft, and the decision not to quit when the work turns into a long, hot march. 

We talk with the author behind the Gunny Mac historical fiction series, a storyteller shaped by the Marine Corps, deep reading, and a love of character-driven plots. He shares the simple mindset shift that helped him stop romanticizing the process and start finishing pages, plus the surprisingly powerful lesson he picked up at a small writers conference: nail your concept and premise, then let character logic do the heavy lifting. If you’ve ever felt stuck, this will give you a practical way forward without gimmicks. 

From there, we dig into what makes historical fiction feel alive. He explains how research becomes story texture, why humor belongs even in hard times, and why shock-value violence can’t replace real character development. We also get into the themes that run through his books: duty, honor, service, faith, redemption, and the kind of loyalty that turns strangers into family. You’ll hear how Gunny Mac is built as a tough Marine with a bruised heart, and why flawed people trying to do the right thing can be the most compelling heroes. 

If you love WWII-era history, Marine Corps stories, character-driven novels, and no-nonsense writing advice, you’ll get a lot out of this conversation. Subscribe for more author interviews, share this with a writer friend who’s been stalling, and leave a review so more readers and storytellers can find the show. Grab the series here: https://amzn.to/4uI0ux1

Transcript

Meeting A Marine Who Inspired Fiction

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Sits down in this great navy chair and it sags almost all the way to the floor. And he still, I have to look up at him. I'm going, Who are you? Padre, so-and-so. And I go, what's all those ribbons? He goes, Hill 882 in Vietnam. Don't worry about it, son. So I love Marines. And we ended up talking. And he became one of my best friends in life. And um, and that's where I got the character of Padre McCaffrey. So all the guys that I know are there. The other thing is, people ask me all the time, how's it feel to write a book? And I go, nothing big. I said, There's a million libraries, there's a million writers out there writing a million books a day. No big deal. So don't get all upset. You can write a book. Anyone can write a book if they want to write a book and if they're dedicated toward it. Um and so and they said, Well, how's it feel to publish a book? And I said, Well, I have a lot of acreage, and so I get on my tractor and I mow straight lines, and the straighter the lines, the more satisfaction I get. And after four hours, I come back, sit on the porch, light up a cigar, and look out there and say, Yeah, I did a good job. I said, That's how I felt about publishing a book, just just a simple satisfaction.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

And about writing a book, it's kind of like a 20 marine 20-mile marine corps forced hike in 95 degree heat at Monaco, Virginia, uh, averaging, you know, in three hours with 80 pounds on your back. And I said, You're just glad you didn't quit. I mean, there's nothing about life, there's nothing magical about most of the things we do. We just don't ever want to quit. And we we we love what we do.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

So I love the way that you relate to different things so well. You make those comparisons so well, and you you had so many great points in there. And especially because I hear all the time, and I'm sure you do as well, from people who say, Oh, I've always wanted to write a book, but you know, but like you said, there's so many books out there, there's so many people that have already done it. Maybe they've done it better. Who cares? Do it anyway. Who cares? Right? Like, what's the worst that's gonna happen? Somebody isn't gonna like your book, toughen up. You're okay. Like you just get up, you're all right. Listen, I may not be a marine, but I was I I'm half German. And the German, you know, those Germans are tough, man. Oh, really? Yes. So it's a, you know, so many of the things that you said, I was chuckling to myself about like, oh my goodness, like this is this is such a part of my upbringing. You're speaking my language that, you know, one, you don't talk trash about your family, you know, you put on a good face when you get out that door and you act right and you just pick yourself up and you do the things that you know you want to do and and don't worry about what anybody else is gonna say. That's like not only is it a great author uh or aspiring author advice, it's great life advice, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:44

Yes. Well, I hope so.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Yeah, I think so, definitely. Maybe people from the next generation don't think so, but we know better. Um, tell me so. Tell me about the the writing experience itself. Did it did it come easily to you? You're an avid reader, so you know it's it's a lane that you understand so well, and I'm sure you've read such a variety of works um from fiction and nonfiction and everything, you know, within that. Um, tell me about that writing experience. What was the hardest part for you? What was the easiest part for you?

SPEAKER_04 3:14

The technical aspect of writing. Um, and the guy, the guy who helped me, I I'm not trying to hope I can plug him, but I'm not trying to, I'm not getting it. But it might help other people. I went to a writing conference, writers' conference in Columbus, Ohio, paid 50 bucks, which is to me, paying 50 bucks. And it was filled with uh 75 people, and there's only one chair left, and they're all women. Oh boy. Did I go to the romance section by mistake or what? And up there was this big handsome guy, former major league ball player, uh Larry, um, Larry,

Writing And Publishing Without The Myth

SPEAKER_04 3:45

Larry uh Brooks, Larry Brooks. Okay, and so I I squeeze in this seat between the women, I'm hearing him talk about all they're great books. And he taught me something. I was struggling, and what I did was um I took Stephen Hunter, which is one of my favorite authors, and I I wrote, I took his chapters and I wrote them down verbatim on a piece of paper over and over again to get the feel and how an author should write that I love.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

So I I did that probably, I think I wrote about a million words. I think that's what uh uh what is the um um one of the um software programs I use and they keep track of your words.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Oh, right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:25

Yeah, and then he he taught me something and it changed my life. It was called something um concept and premise of a novel. What I understood the concept, and can I give you an example? People may not um let's say let's talk about Jesus. A man comes down from somewhere in outer space or anywhere and he comes down to change the world, and and um the premise would be he comes down to change the world for the good. Yeah, that's simple. Um, Superman, uh, a man comes down from somewhere and he ends up on the earth. The premise would be to save and to help people. If you can just get those two little things going in your writing, it gets you started. Yeah, certainly, I never had a problem with uh writing, uh you know, having problems writing or being stuck. My characters, I know them so well, they write the story for me. I know exactly how Gunny Mac will feel because I know how I feel. I know how exactly how Lieutenant Burke would feel because I'm not a blue blood Harvard graduate, but I've been around enough of them to know in Naval Academy and West Point. I know exactly how they feel. Um, Hodre McCaffrey's been around priests my whole life, and I've been around him. I know how he's gonna do. So they you know it's kind of logic. You learn in Catholic school, Sister Rosalima taught me logic. Logic? I know what that is. No, they don't know what logic is, but they think they do. But they think they do. Yeah, it's simple. If A happens, either B, C, or D has to happen. They're the best responses. You don't have to go think of anything, it's think about somebody walking into a bank that's being robbed. What do you do? You do B, C, or D. And and that helps the story. And once you get past that, then you go to B, then B, something else has to happen. Right. And you pick and knowing them, they write the story for me. It's really easy.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Yeah, it's understanding to give your characters depth, right? That's that is what gives them depth when you're able to put yourself in their position and think about how, right? Yeah, absolutely. It's so true. Takes a flat character and and makes them, you know, three-dimensional. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:30

So it's that I would recommend people do.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Yeah. I love that. That's such great advice. Absolutely. Um, so one of the things I think is really special about your

A $50 Conference That Changed Craft

SPEAKER_01 6:40

series is that it it brings a period in time in history to generations that really only know about it through, like they'd have an experience, they don't live it, they can't remember it because it wasn't part of their existence. And we know in a lot of cases it's not really being taught um the way it should be in the schools. So your books are are bringing this to life to them. And for someone like me, like I need to an example is uh my husband got me interested in football by telling me the stories of the players, like their background, their lives. So I became invested in the story, in their in their sport, in their game, um, because I was invested in the people. And and I think that is something so special about um fictional novels, historical fiction like this, that you're bringing this to life and giving it texture to people that really only saw it as cardboard, basically before. So that's uh amazing.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

You know, um, I think like Chinatown, um, my dad told me all about on his way to before Iojima, um, they trained on in Hawaii, and he told me stories of what they did in China in Chinatown and in Honolulu, um, and how they drank uh beer, lots of beer and ate lots of French fries and threw up all over the street, just like Marines would do, probably. And I'd say, gee, dad, that sounds like fun. And he and he'd tell me all about that. Um, and then um it helped me understand, and Chinatown was that's a great story. Uh, but the the next one was um trouble in Cleveland. I grew up in Cleveland, and when people realized Elliot Ness was a safety director at Cleveland, um the famous um the guy George Burns and Gracie got married at the Statler in in World War II. So I bring all a lot of facts in. Um uh the the the uh Slavinski, the the head of the Slovenian mobs, and the and the Italian Petrocelli of the Italian mobs, and the Polish, Dombrowski, the you know, you bring in all these wonderful characters that are funny. And if you don't have humor, forget it. You have to have humor along with and uh the one thing about modern writing is I don't like they cut his eyeball out and they mailed it to him.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_04 8:56

I want character development. Right. I want somebody that said he did something a little bit bad, but and maybe even a little slightly atrocious, but they're good people, they're just trying to just trying to do the right thing. Um and so, and then of course, and then Tomahawk Gap is uh a co-talker and who was wounded on Guadacanal, goes back to to tending sheep uh New Mexico and gives a call to Gunny Mac saying, Hey, um, I'm making my last stand at Tomahawk Gap, Semper Phi, I need your help. So Gunny Mac drops everything in the detectives, and they go to Tomahawk Gap to help save Henry Running Bear. Uh, and all these stories about it's really love of your fellow man, it's really a lot of things you have to do, you don't want to do. Uh but at the end, you're it's your family.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

Or it's your family. And that's what I write about.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

I love that. And you know, you you talk about the those concepts, you know, and uh, of course, you when you you think that you think of duty and sacrifice and honor and service. Um, do you think this modern culture uh still understands concepts like that in the same way that that generation did? Or it do you think that's like a lost mindset, I guess, is the I don't know if mindset's the right right word for it, but um do you think that they have kind of lost that concept?

SPEAKER_04 10:22

No, I I don't. I I I have hope for the future. Uh for years, um, I had a high school kid from Dublin, Ohio, or Worthington, excuse me. His father was a lawyer, my wife's a lawyer, so that's how I got to know him. And uh we he he came over every summer, worked for me all through high school, and I worked, worked him like a dog. And I fed him uh lunch, hot dogs, and and uh um and all through college. Well, his dad calls me up one day and says, he's crying, his dad. My son wants to join the Marine Corps. I said, Well, you know, you spend your whole life raising a man when he wants to become a man, all of a sudden you don't like it. And he goes, Well, no, you gotta help me. He's belevictorian of his high school class. I know you, and he's a good guy, so I love him dearly. I said, All right, I'll do you a favor and I'll talk to him. So he went down to the restaurant and I had a lunch with him. I said, Look, kid, I said, I love you dearly. And I said, Um, you you're a lot has been given to you, a lot is expected of you. I said, very little was given to me, and very little is expected of me, and I've overachieved uh to a certain degree. Um not patting myself on the back, but I you know I didn't go haywire. Um, and so I said, Why don't you do what I did? I said, Look, I I was an enlisted man and I I became an officer, but you why don't you go to college and go through the PLC program and become a commissioned officer? You're a great kid. And he did that four years at Miami, and now he's a major in the Raiders

Concept Premise And Character Logic

SPEAKER_04 11:50

battalion.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 11:51

Yeah, and um um so yeah, they're they're out there. The kid the kids need, and I I god I could write a book on this, I should parenting.

unknown 12:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:03

Here's the thing when I was growing up, um before things went haywire, I had to be in bed by eight o'clock. So my parents in summer, when it didn't matter, and I had to be in bed, and my parents would be in the living room having a vodka or drink and listening to Frank Albert Sinatra, um, and just talking. Nowadays parents don't get that. So I say to parents and adults, your kids are they're they your kids can't be more than your marriage, right? Because your marriage came first, the kids came second. So you have to give your kids some rules, and you may not like it, and they may not like it. I mean, I remember looking out the window and seeing my mom and dad having a drink dressed up to the next one. They had a small party. I was proud of them for that. Yeah, I was proud.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 12:53

I couldn't play more than one sport. I was I picked baseball, had to be home for dinner. You know, if you don't if your kids are out there and spending four sports away, they're more there with their friends more than their family, they don't have a dinner together, they're not they're gonna they're gonna value their friends more than their family. So I get that wisdom. Um, but if you and the people who do that, they raise great kids. Now all the kids are different, some are better than others, I mean do better, but but they're all good people, right? That's the good thing. You got you have to raise good people, morals, values, scruples. And if you're gonna get married, you gotta marry a person with the right to say morals and the values. If you don't, it's going downhill, you're not gonna make it, and that's the same with friendships, you know. I could have I've never taken a illegal drug in my life. I've I've I'm I'm like I've tried to live the best life I can, and it it's easy because I want to do what God wants me to do. I want to live a good life. Yeah, I feel if I do something bad, I go, oh, I feel you know, I feel this terrible remorse and seek redemption for it.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

I love that, I love that, and you know, and it's it's so true. And I really truly hope you do write that book that you just kind of you know half-joked about, but I I think it would be such a wonderful book. Let me just put more things on your plate for you to do.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

Well, how to raise a renaissance man.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Yes, yeah, you just gave me chills that you said that because I we've always referred to my husband as the Renaissance man, you know. The joke is always he can take it downtown or he can take it uptown, like whatever, whatever you need. He's the guy, it's all good.

SPEAKER_04 14:34

And people don't even know what a renaissance man is, let alone try to raise a son uh or daughter, Renaissance girl. Um uh but it it it's it's all good that way.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Yeah, absolutely so true. Let me take you back. I want I want to I want to learn a little bit about Gunny Mac, which is of course your central character. Um, tell me, you know, kind of like the the movie trailer version of who Gunny Mac is.

SPEAKER_04 15:01

Gunny Mac is a man who spent 17 years in the Marine Corps up to Guadacanal. Um, with with the back then, Marines pretty much served together with a by a guy named Awoja Howitz, who's his sidekick in all my books. And they fought through the banana wars. Uh, they have wonderful stories I relate, they think about throughout the books, pretty funny, funny, funny ones. And he's been a guy that has always wanted a wife deep inside. Doesn't show it. He's wondering, he's always looking out and saying, Wow, wouldn't it be it's so strange to have a family? I mean, it's like family, and he got nah, never happened to me. And um, in Chinatown, I'm not gonna go into great detail, I don't want to give the book away, but he there's a nurse by the name of Kathleen who helps him out and survive because he's so terribly wounded. Um, they don't expect him to survive. He's got 37 different wounds, uh bayoneted twice, shot in the throat, uh very badly wounded. And so he is a guy that just is kind of um easygoing. He's he's going, he's like any marine gunnery sergeant. Go out and have a few beers, smoke a few cigars, and have a good time, and and love the marine corps. His whole life has been the marine corps, and so when Guadacanal hits and he wins the Navy Cross in Guadacanal, um he things change for the first time. He's alone. The thing that he didn't have a marriage, he didn't have a family,

History Humor And Heart In Fiction

SPEAKER_04 16:25

only thing was the core, and it was ripped out from underneath him, so he's lost. And I like lost people. Yeah, I like them because if they're good, they stumble around for a while, and yeah, they drink their fair share of bourbon, smoke their fair share of cigars, but they're trying to write the ship. They they know I gotta write the ship, and that's where Gunny Mac is now. And I won't tell you if he ever has a child or or gets married or anything else, but um he's a good guy. I mean, he wants to help people, and he does it by telling the truth. A lot of people don't like the truth.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

That is so that is so true. That is the truth right there.

SPEAKER_04 17:07

You could say it nicely, or you can say you're a soup. You can say whatever you want, and they're not gonna take trying to help writers. Oh my god. So Gunny Mac, um it's kind of like he was the kind of guy that uh give you an example. Um, I was in formation one time. The the Gunny, the DI looks at me and he's swearing at me, and I'm I'm smiling, I can't keep it back. And he goes, What are you smiling at me for? What's around? You think I'm funny? And I go, uh no draw instructor. Uh but my mother had a better vocab, worse vocabulary than you. And so he said, she did. I said, Yeah, she's he's tell me what she said. And I said what she called me. He goes, like that. I swear to her. He turned white. And he went, he said, No, no son ought to be called that by his mother. He says, see me after training. So I had to go back and report to me. And he's got his feet up on the desk, he's smoking a cigar. And he goes, What'd your mother call you? I said, Gunnery sergeant. The boot already told you what he called. She called him, and she goes, I want to hear it again. And so I told him, he goes, Oh man, said don't worry, kid, I'll take care of you.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Oh, it's no wonder, no wonder you love the course so much.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

Don't worry, we'll we'll oh you uh we'll make it up to you, you know. That's the way Gunny Mac is. He's he's he grew up in Saint Stanislaw Church, Cathedral in Cleveland. His parents were Slovaks, they had to go back home because of Alice Island, and they had TB. One of them had TB. So they left him at five years old in the pews of St. Stanislaw Church in Cleveland with a note attached to him. We we love our son, we have to go back because of medical issues, but please raise him right. And so the priest decides to not adopt him but keep him. So he gets raised in St. Stanislaw Church by the nuns, yeah, and by the priests. And so he goes to Catholic Church and uh he plays baseball and he and he lives uh uh with another guy by the name of Furnival, and that's how he was raised. And so he's got a very he's got a good idea what right and wrong is.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah, I love how you have woven your faith throughout these stories too. I love that. I think that's so special.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

Because it without my faith, I'm a nobody, you know. And um, it's I whatever little that I've achieved in my life, it's not me, it's it's God. I mean, it's kind of like people probably make fun of that, but I don't really care or don't accept it, and I really don't care. But it it's you know what you know. Oh yeah, yeah, and and I know I like people who are like me, and I've I've been lucky my entire life. I had a colonel once, I was a captain. He calls me and he goes, I've been looking at your service record book, Captain. And he says, I see you're a Catholic. I say, Yeah, you can read, Colonel. Yeah, good. And and he goes, Yeah, because I put up with nothing in the corps, because we in the Marine Corps, people think it's all discipline, but you can say whatever's on your mind in the Marine Corps and get away with it within reason. And and he said, Well, I'm kind of worried that you're a Catholic, and if we go into combat, you're not gonna be able to kill anybody. So I looked at him and said, I could kill you for asking me that question because it's me on bounds. He looked at me. And I said, Do you ever hear of Joan of Arc who led an army? Oh, that's wild. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Well, um you silenced him pretty quick.

SPEAKER_04 20:36

All right, you're okay. I said, never ask me that question again. Don't ever question my faith in Marine. Don't ever do it again.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

We're gonna so but but never did I bet. All right, I have I want to wrap up with kind of a it's kind of a silly question, but I'm always curious about this because it's something I think

Duty Values And Raising Good People

SPEAKER_01 20:55

about when I write. If you had to, if you even had anybody in mind, if you had somebody in mind to play Gunny Mac in a movie or a series, who would it be?

SPEAKER_04 21:06

Well, people won't know who he is, but an actor by the name of Eldo Ray. Okay. Um in the 40s and 50s, a gravely voice, but he was a bulk of a man, and Gunny Mac's big and wojo's big, and um it would probably be Eldo Ray, a modern actor. Maybe um, who's the guy that played in um Beverly Hills? The big blonde guy.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Um oh, oh, oh.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

Um I can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

I almost had it. We're gonna look it up. So everybody's gonna jump into the comments. Like, this is now this is our homework for our our viewers and our listeners. You need to jump in that comment section and tell us the name.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

Nick Nulty.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

There you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_04 21:47

Nick, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

I'm gonna check those timestamps to see if they beat us to the punch there. Oh, yeah. So I yeah, that that's for me, that's so helpful to like just to get this picture. And I know some people want to picture it themselves, who they think. you know what the character looks like but i like to know what the author pictures when they they see their characters you know in the he's always played a tough guy but he had a heart of gold and i i think i think that is where people need to concentrate on uh in their characters uh you can have the meanest guy in the world that doesn't do anything he's gonna have a combination of compassion in the right way love in the right way um and love sometimes is hard it's not easy if you love somebody or something you don't want them to fail so you have to do what you have to do yeah yeah I love that oh I'm so excited to read your books you listen throughout this interview I'm like I'm gonna read these books I am gonna read these books I'm so excited I'd be more than glad to send you one and sign it oh that would be amazing that would be so so cool if you just leave me your address I'll your of your company and I'll mail you one yes absolutely all right so tell everyone um the order of the books which one should they start with uh it's the number one book is Chinatown and there you learn who the characters are and they slowly uh get acquired throughout the the pages of the book they kind of like Cunny Mac kind of collects them and and um and my wife is favorite is Gunny McCaffrey I mean uh Padre McCaffrey he's he's shot in the head and he's not the same priest as he was before and so he says things outrageous things because he doesn't have a governor anymore but he has God God is everything to him and he'll go out and he'll say things that make people laugh and it's really hilarious.

SPEAKER_04 23:36

Um and that is the book where you get to learn about Wojo and Lieutenant Burr and all these other characters that are bad people but through the experiences of Gunny Mac Wojo and Padre McKay you watch him turn and he's he's worried about he knows these are bad people and they're doing bad things and how through the book the metamorphosis of people that all of a sudden at the end of the story they're not the same person anymore they're really bad but then they they they're curving and they're fun people I mean it makes the books make from what everybody's told me at least they make your heart happy they make it sad at some individual times they make you cry with happiness and at the end uh if it's if it's not a book that makes you feel good then why you read it about history and you're and but those are the characters they're they're they're they're uh in the second book is a goes on now Gunny Mac has a detective agency in the second book which is um uh trouble in Cleveland uh and now they're they bought some property outside Cleveland near um um

Gunny Mac’s Origin Faith And Truth

SPEAKER_04 24:45

in the country and and they bought an old monastery because they come up magically become uh get a large amount of money in the first book uh and you have to read the book to find out how we're not telling you and so they buy an old uh monastery and Padre McCaffrey rebuilds it um and then and the third is uh they follow through but they meet new characters in the sense that um in in cleveland you have you get introduced to the new mobs and you you watch how they work and they're they're helping Gunny Mac so they won't let they don't want Gunny Mac and his boys to do all the dirty deeds and that's what we get paid for. We'll do it for free. Yeah and it's fun it's a riot they're they're all riot as people um and and then uh Tomahawk Gap Henry Bunningbear you have to fall in love with uh I fell in love I went to New Mexico to the four corners I went to all the museums on the Indians and I had this love of the American Indian um watching enough John Wayne movies he really really respected them and Henry Running Bear I said I gotta write a story about the uh Navajo Indians because when when they got involved in war they didn't like white people they grew up in the they were mistreated and some of the stories you hear in my book of what the government did to them awful yeah I mean I'll give you just one example they took 4000 head of sheep and they were eating all the grass so the government came in and took all their sheep and killed them all and buried them and and made them destitute. So Henry Running Bear um how he gets in the Marine Corps and in his in his whole culture and in his relationship with the white Marines and how he learns to love the Marines and and how they all get together and they fight to save him and it's a wonderful story.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

I love that they're all such rich diverse stories that you know that they each are just this this they're so different from each other with this core running through no pun intended um but you know my fourth one about to be published is Trouble on Jekyll Island do you remember the Federal Reserve?

SPEAKER_04 26:58

I spent a lot of time down south and the Federal Reserve was founded on Jekyll Island all the Carnegie's Rockefeller Morgans and so people don't they only think our our government is corrupt. Well it was very corrupt in World War II. Right oh very of course and so when people realize that they go wow I didn't know that and from um coupons um what they did with that the the um giving uh inadequate parts for the war machine sabotaging liberty ships at the shipyard and how Gunny Mack goes in there and it's it's a fabulous story because it involves at that time those people had 20% of the world's wealth not America's wealth these people had 20 20 of the world's wealth yeah wow and so it's really a fun thing and I read a book called Creature on Jekyll Island which is talk about the founding of the Federal Reserve and I was fascinated by it all yeah and then my fifth book is A Step in Hell I was a member of the intelligence agency for three years while in the military and it's my I hated drugs I hate drugs the passion and how it's it's how a few people go into um Colombia to to kidnap a cartel member but with the government against them with the CIA against them the government it's a fascinating story. And then my other one I've started is Ty Cobb a baseball book for youth about Ty Cobb you don't sit still sir I have you know I'm not getting any younger so I I have these books and if I get three more done I'll sit back and go thank you God for the privilege of doing that.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

I love it. I love that you still have so many stories to tell in you and that you're going for it and you're doing it and you're doing it so

Book Order New Projects And Where To Buy

SPEAKER_01 28:50

well too um I I love how I love the the history mixed in with the fiction you clearly do not mind research you obviously love research so that's really cool uh in itself I'm a little lazy on my research it's not my favorite so I don't write historical fiction historical anything we don't we don't want me to do that trust me I love that you're doing it I love that you're doing it for you know generations that that are are like reliving it in the best possible way and generations that um have no experience with it so it's new to them. So for some it's familiar and uh stroll down maybe a little bit of memory lane or learning some things that they didn't know. So yeah so you've got a a a great broad audience that that your books appeal to tell everyone where they can find your books.

SPEAKER_04 29:36

My website is um gunnymacbooks.com you can find them on your audiobooks ebooks paperback books on Amazon and other places cobalt apple wherever but uh only my first two books have audio books my third one doesn't because I'm watching the market see how it's sure yeah no smart makes total sense and I just want to tell us to writers out there have fun writing and it if you're if you're not making millions you you're gonna make if you make I remember in my life I said God if I can make one person happy in my entire life and that was my that's my wife if I can make her happy and that's the only person I've achieved more than I could ever dream.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

All the women in the audience just swooned every single one every single one of them just went aw so yes true and and so writers just get out there and write and and where it goes it goes um just have fun doing it and share with them yeah I love that perfect advice and perfect way to close out our chat it was so wonderful talking to you I love I can listen to you all day tell stories I just want to hear all your stories so please keep writing keep publishing keep putting them out there guys I will put everything uh in the show notes you'll there'll be links there for you to be able to click right on it and go right to purchase and and learn more about Steven and uh again thank you so much for joining me today it's been a delight you are wonderful and uh thank you thank you so much a big hug because as a Marine we need it I love it I love it thank you so much all right guys we'll see you in the next episode take care bye bye you've got a story worth sharing now it's time to tell it well whether you're an author entrepreneur influencer or podcast guest stepping in front of the camera or microphone can feel overwhelming.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

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