What If Surrender Is The Shortest Road To Peace?

The hardest moments don’t just test our faith—they rewrite it. Author Elizabeth Harris sits with us to share how grief, motherhood, and the daily work of love turned her from religious motions to a living relationship with God. After losing her grandfather, she began writing letters to heaven, a humble practice that shifted from ink on a page to prayer with a pulse. Those pages became a map out of despair, teaching her to feel what is real, name it without shame, and surrender what she couldn’t fix.

Our talk moves from the silence of loss to the music of nature. Elizabeth describes standing in a tropical grove as wind changed tone across different trees, a simple moment that revealed a language of the Spirit—one breath expressed a thousand ways. That insight fueled her choice to blend poetry and prose, because some truths need the space of a line break and others need the steadiness of narrative. We also walk through her unexpected path into late motherhood and the seismic shift of raising a son with autism and cognitive delay. Denial gave way to an honest, gut-level lament that cleared room for peace. Along the way, she learned to see people who wound us as carrying their own special needs of the heart, and to live from the inside out instead of performing for the room.

Elizabeth now describes herself as a heartist, offering prayerful Reiki as gentle care that smooths stress and pours love without fanfare. Her throughline is disarmingly simple: be the child of God you are, and the rest finds its place. If you’ve been navigating grief, faith deconstruction, autism parenting, or the fear of sharing vulnerable work, this conversation offers practical hope and thoughtful perspective. Listen, breathe, and consider what love this moment is asking of you.

If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs courage, and leave a short review—it helps more people find these stories. Find the book HERE

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Guest Introduction
• 1:50 The Meaning Behind Letters To Heaven
• 5:45 Writing As Connection And Prayer
• 10:40 Discovering God In Nature’s Language
• 15:40 Choosing Poetry, Prose, And Vulnerability
• 20:25 Publishing Fears And Long Delay
• 26:15 Motherhood Late In Life
• 31:40 Autism, Denial, And Breaking Open
• 39:00 Reframing Struggle And Finding Gratitude
• 44:20 Parenting Without Shame Or Comparison
• 50:45 How Difference Opens Hearts

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Every conversation tells a story, and the best ones begin with honesty, courage, and a little curiosity. That's where Elsa Kurt comes in. She's an author, podcaster, and independent media personality, and this is where she brings real life to the table. Authors, thinkers, creators, leaders, everyday folks with extraordinary journeys. We sit down, we dig in, and we talk about what matters, what's messy, what's beautiful, and what just might inspire you to look at the world a little differently. So pour a cup of something good. Settle back and join me. This is Elsa Kurt Interviews, where truth has a seat and everyone's welcome.

SPEAKER_04: 0:41

Well, hello, my friends. We have a special interview for you today. I will be talking with Elizabeth Harris, and it is gonna be such a fun interview and so enlightening, and I'm so excited for you. Here's a little bit about Elizabeth.

SPEAKER_01: 0:57

From the quiet ache of grief to the steady glow of hope, Elizabeth Harris has walked a road that reshaped her faith and deepened her understanding of love. In her book, Letters to Heaven, she opens her heart with remarkable honesty, inviting us into the conversations that carried her from sorrow to surrender. Today she joins us to share the journey that transformed her life, her faith, and her calling.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21

Well, hello there. Welcome to the show. Hello, hello. Uh so we were, I I'll give you a little intel, guys. We were just chatting before we came on air. And uh just so you know, I'm gonna be referring to Elizabeth as Beth. She goes by Beth in casual conversation, and that's what we're gonna have. We're gonna have a great casual conversation, and I'm so excited to learn about your books and and your stories. So thank you for joining me today. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. So um I wanna I kind of want to start in the middle a little bit, and and before we even step into your story, I I want to talk about the very center. So letters from heaven is or letters to heaven, I'm sorry, is such a I don't know why I said that like that. That's so funny. Wouldn't it be great if we got letters from heaven? Well, we kind of do, right? Yeah, we do. Yeah, we do. We do. Um, but it's such a it's a vulnerable title. Tell me what that phrase means to you personally and what moment first sparked the idea for this book.

SPEAKER_02: 2:25

Uh well, I grew up in a religious family and felt very disconnected from what I learned. And when I sort of left it all behind and ventured out on my own and fell flat on my face, I tried to reconnect with that. And what started it was the death of my grandfather. Uh, it was the first real loss that I've had experienced up to that point, and I was already in a really dark place uh of despair. And then when he died, it just I made a choice. I could have gone deeper into the pit of despair and depression, or I could uh write my way out of it. Uh so with letters to heaven, so with grandpa, um, I just didn't know what to do. I didn't, I needed to connect with him. I needed to know he was alive. I needed to know, I needed to believe in the promise as Christians, what what we've been told. And so I just found for myself it was more poignant, perhaps, for to write it. Something made it more real by writing it out. And um so it was just it was a letter to heaven, it was a letter to my grandpa in heaven, and uh, and that was just that was the start. I realized, yeah, this there's something here for me, and I'm going to continue this journey of writing to letters to heaven to God too, and and and find out who God is, what God is.

SPEAKER_04: 4:03

Yeah, yeah. That's such a relatable emotional journey and experience because I I think ultimately that's what we're we're all seeking, that relationship and that comfort. And and as a fellow writer, I I so relate to that need to put it on paper to to just crystallize the thoughts. You know, yes, thoughts, right? Like you're it in your head, everything that's it's it's fighting with so many other thoughts in your head, and it's like if you put it on paper, it just clarifies everything, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02: 4:39

Yes, yes, it does. I haven't done it for hadn't done it for a while, and I started to do it again, and it was like uh just an old friend. Uh oh, hello, I'm back.

SPEAKER_04: 4:52

Yes, oh, such an incredible feeling. I recommend to anyone to give that a try, even if you don't think you're a writer. You don't even need to be your writer, right?

SPEAKER_02: 5:01

Yeah, just I wasn't trying to be a writer when I did it, right?

SPEAKER_04: 5:04

It was just Oh, that's so fascinating too. That that it wasn't even a thought in your head that this was just such a personal um uh experience that you needed to have, and uh it's just incredible. The letters themselves, they are of course by nature very intimate and like prayers almost. It's almost like a a conversation that you were brave enough to let the world overhear, and that's such a vulnerable uh experience. Did you believe in your heart and your mind did you feel like you were talking to God then, or did it just feel like you were putting words out into the universe? Like how did it feel to you to be doing that?

SPEAKER_02: 5:48

Initially it was it was uh putting words down, uh, but again, as I started to write, it wasn't like an instant connection. Um and I realized how fed I was from it, and um and I often went back to them during moments of anguish and you know was nourished by it again. And that's where I at one point was like, well, would other people be?

SPEAKER_04: 6:18

You know, maybe what a generous, beautiful thought to have too, to think that your your own grief and security with it um could help someone else. That's such a a giving heart. I I just I love that so much. I try, I try succeeding, succeeding so well at that. So many people writing through grief end up discovering truths that they didn't expect. And I and I know in my own writing, not necessarily just with uh grief or sadness or pain or loss, kind of anything that writing experience, um, I I end up finding out things when I re reread them and I discover things that I didn't even realize that I was putting down on paper. Did you find that you were surprised by anything that you wrote when you went back and read it?

SPEAKER_02: 7:11

Yes. I was I'm like, where did that come out? I and I don't I was gonna say that came out of me, but it's more that came through me, you know, it's just really trying to sit and listen to the Holy Spirit, and uh especially in sort of the more nature uh sections of the book where I begin to see God in nature, and uh uh I was like, wow, that was really cool. Like there's one um where I was uh I was traveling and I was at a tropical place and I was walking through an abandoned property to the beach and the wind was blowing. And as I walked past this grove of trees, the wind made a different noise. And I thought I stopped, I backed up, I listened to it again, and you go back and forth, like wow, and I thought, wow, nature has its own language. The trees respond like it's kind of I I think of it the Bible verse where it's like the holy, you will feel the spirit like a wind and whatnot. And so it made me think of the impact of the Holy Spirit on other people. You had different trees, and each tree leaf made a different sound in response to the wind, and it just made me think of how different we all are and how we all have our unique expressions and how, anyways, uh but there's a divine, a diverse unity that um brings harmony in it. And anyways, uh that uh what was the question again?

SPEAKER_04: 8:47

I just listen, who even cares? I just love hearing what you what you're saying because it's it's really so beautiful, and what I'm hearing coming through you is just this this poet's um heart and eye and vision and and mind, and it's so beautiful, and it actually leads really perfectly to uh how you actually do blend poetry and and prose in a way that feels uh just like exhaling. And and I I can hear that as you're remembering it, as you're talking about this nature experience that like it's just that that beautiful exhale of nature, you know? And I love that. Um why was this the right form for you for this story instead of say a fiction story or you know, anything else, or just simply a memoir? What was it about poetry and the prose and and just the the letters that said that made you feel like this is the right way to go? How did you know?

SPEAKER_02: 9:51

Because of the connection to God, it was this is just where we met, and I followed my heart in that God opened my heart in such a huge way. I always thought I had an open heart, but you know, he showed me that I can always learn a little more. Open it even more, but but anyways, yeah, so that would I would have to say it just felt right. Um and I just followed that lead. Uh didn't really again didn't plan it that way, but it just happened and it was like, okay, this is this is this is what I need to do.

SPEAKER_04: 10:31

What a what a good and faithful servant to just step back from what you're thinking and and all the noise in your own head, and just to say, just lead me, just lead me to what's right. And and uh it's to me as a I always call myself a learning Christian because I started so late and I just I'm never gonna say I hope none of us ever stop learning. I mean, we always need to feel like that. Oh, absolutely. Like I I never not want to be a learning Christian, of course. Um but I always feel like I'm playing catch-up too. So it's it's lovely to hear when somebody else's experience is telling them the same thing that it's telling me, really, like to just basically get out of the way and and let and let yourself be be led. And and you did that. And by the way, and I you know, hey, I don't want to like cheapen this conversation by saying that you know your reviews are are showing that this is a connecting both books actually are very connecting pieces of work that people that are resonating with people. It's it's all five stars, so it's like beautiful, you know, that that you're getting that kind of response and reaction. And I know you don't need the validation from people because you you get the validation from above. Um, but it is it's so nice to see, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02: 11:55

You know, it and it is because like you said, you put yourself out there, you open the doors to your heart, um by putting like your diary out there, you know, basically. Um and it is I'm very grateful when I read a review and someone has been touched by it. It's like, okay, that's there. You have it. It's all I need.

SPEAKER_03: 12:18

Yeah, yeah, it's so beautiful. Did you have any anxiety about publishing, about putting putting it out there so much?

SPEAKER_02: 12:26

For years. Yeah, yeah. I mean, letters to heaven was compiled in the 90s, so there you have it.

SPEAKER_04: 12:34

Wow, yeah, yeah. At what point did you decide? I'm sorry, I interrupted you. Yeah, that's okay.

SPEAKER_02: 12:39

Go ahead. What what point did I decide?

SPEAKER_04: 12:42

Well, uh at what point did you decide that you wanted to put it out there? Was I mean, because you said they were written in the 90s and they were published with within the past year. So like at what point did you when was that decision made? That's fascinating to me.

SPEAKER_02: 12:58

Well, uh, I would say when I realized that it was feeding me, uh, and I don't mean that to sound narcissistic or anything like that. Um that and I started to contemplate the idea of like, well, should I share these? Uh, then it was like what uh 20, 20 year journey from there. I started small. Like I actually what I did first of all was I I made Apple books, um, I books um for my family and put them in um just like a Christmas gift, and here you go. And and uh then after that it was like, no, that's not enough. Dang, right? Like I gotta go more with this. Uh so I started a website and I put them on that website and it still wasn't it wasn't completed. And it's like, okay, so all right, let's do it. And God gifted me with some funds that I was able to uh pursue the actual physical publishing of them. So uh but it's also I had to also go through what I went through with my son as well, I think before uh I was ready. I was a lot, there's a lot of anxiety, a lot of fear uh sure about putting myself out there.

SPEAKER_04: 14:23

But uh thankfully my son undid all of that. So yes, they are so good at that. Let's talk about that a little bit, if you don't mind. If you're okay with that, let's let's talk about that part of your journey because you have another book out and you said I think you told me that they came out approximately at the same time. Is that right? Yeah, okay. Um, let's talk about that a little bit. What walk me through a little bit of that part of the journey for you?

SPEAKER_02: 14:47

So when I uh I have always I waited years to have a kid, and um I felt like there was one waiting for me, but just wasn't happening. And so the year I was turning 40, I decided to sort of give up on motherhood and I'll just live vicariously through other people's children, right? And I'll support them and help found, you know, just do I'll just that'll be my path. And then within a month of letting that dream go, I got pregnant. And it was like, oh okay, okay. Yeah. So I started a journal again. I started journaling um to my unborn child. And I just thought this would be a memento. Uh but they might have he might, well, I didn't know if it was a boy or girl, that this child might get a kick out of it one day, or maybe if we're, you know, butt and heads, maybe he'll understand his mother. Um or or just see that she's human too, that she gets scared and and just, you know, I didn't know what it would be. I just knew I had to start writing. And um, so I started as soon as I found out I was pregnant and journaled fairly consistently up until about 2009. I can't remember. Oh, I forgot the book right here. I can I love that. I love it.

SPEAKER_04: 16:14

Listen, I'm not above taking a little cheek peek there.

unknown: 16:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 16:17

Yeah. So I fairly consistently and then I stopped writing um journaling because uh uh I realized that I'm just saying the same thing over and over again. And okay, I really don't need to linger here, you know. It's um so I put down the pen for a long time, picked it up every so often. Um but yeah, it was uh so yeah, journaling through the the birth and everything seemed fine, everything was uh, and then that dawning of oh oh some's wrong. And then that whole journey into um despair, depression, but you know, denial actually denial was really what it was. And there is one entry in the Dojo John John book where I just finally broke. And um it was funny because an error error came up on my computer that said, you know, error, hyperlink not valid. And I just stared at it and something went snap. And I just thought, no, I need to just write out everything. I just, you know, I gave God the mother load and I knew he could deal with it. And I knew it wasn't a place I'd stay. I knew it was just a vent and um and I needed to get it out of the way. And uh it doesn't mean I didn't go back there from time to time, but of course, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 17:45

We are only human, right? I mean, wow.

SPEAKER_02: 17:50

Yeah, I kind of have learned to see uh the Dojo John John book starts off with a couple of forewords. Uh one is a sort of a letter, uh a little story, it's a fictional story. So I did put some fiction into that. Of um, you know, once upon a time, girl got what she asked for because I had wanted a child and I didn't want them to be typical. It's like, okay, the universe heard, and they sent me something that I was like, nah, that's not what I asked for. Yeah, yeah. Um, but but again, uh, so so I wrote something from my perspective as a mother, and then I wrote a second story um projecting into my son why he might have come as he is to this earth. And I've decided that he is my celestial social worker and um who's come to wake me up from my own autism, my spiritual autism. So he's uh autistic himself, among uh many other things, but uh I he really I he just off me.

SPEAKER_04: 18:56

Yeah, I was gonna say he was your crash course in uh a whole different life, right? A whole different path and a whole different journey.

SPEAKER_02: 19:04

It's funny you say crash. There's a song by Chris Daughtry called Crashed.

SPEAKER_04: 19:08

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 19:09

And uh the lyrics are like, and then I crashed into you and I went up in flames. It could have been the death of me, but then you breathed your breath in me, and you know, it's like it's he did he just life with him completely undid everything, all my paradigms, and and taught me to really come face to face with fear and just face things that I hadn't wanted to face, and to sort of learn to live in the unknown and find that deeper faith of being constantly bombarded with a world you didn't anticipate, didn't necessarily even want, you know. But but I'm so grateful for it. I can't not express enough gratitude to him.

SPEAKER_04: 19:53

I love the I love the sincerity and honesty of what you just said, because anyone who When you're raising a child that has whether it's a disability or just different challenges than what's the typical uh challenges we go through with raising kids. Um you know, people it's almost like it feels like it's almost, I think that some people feel parents, they feel like it's almost taboo to admit that they're struggling and that it's hard and that there are days where you just want to throw in the towel and all of those things. And I think it is so helpful for other parents experiencing this type of of life, that it's okay to have those feelings, but you know, you do you can pull yourself up and through it and have a magnificent life. And you know, we weren't promised an easy life, right? Like that wasn't part of the promise for us whatsoever. Um, so uh the account of that, fictionalized or not, is I I think probably so reassuring and and just gives courage to parents who may be facing that.

SPEAKER_02: 21:16

Well, and that was one thing. People always felt sorry for me. And oh, I'm sorry this has happened. Oh, you know, I'm like, you know what? I said, and what you talking back to what you said, if you're a parent, you've got trouble. You know what I mean? You've got trouble, you just do. This is just what mine looked like because you know, one of the blessings uh is you know, Johnny will never be in gangs, he'll never be into drugs, right? He's a control freak's dream. You know, I can tell everyone, right? Right, but no, I'm kidding. Uh, I mean, no, I do, but um, but there are things about life with him that I won't have other challenges that other parents face that are equally, you know, carpet ripping, carpet pulling out, right? So I love the reference, by the way. Yeah. Oh it was in the old village. Yeah. It's funny. I used to dream about um a person named John prior to getting pregnant. And every John that I knew always showed up in my dreams. And it was always a different person named John. And I'm like, okay, so it's clearly not a person, it's this name John. And um, so it's it's so that's sort of also what lent itself to um, you know, a deeper meaning and sort of something from the other side, right?

SPEAKER_04: 22:40

Like there's something was going on ahead of time that uh uh was preparing me for yeah, and you were smart enough to listen to it. That's amazing. Did you know you were listening? Did you know you were listening? Not really.

SPEAKER_02: 22:54

Well, I well, I was I was I yeah, I had no idea it would be a kid. I thought it was gonna be some teacher, which happens to be my kid.

SPEAKER_04: 23:03

Yeah, yeah, that's a teacher right there for you, right? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02: 23:07

Lessons every parent and every foster parent and every adoptive parent, everyone who is raising a child. It's it's uh yeah, lots to learn, lots to lots to learn.

SPEAKER_04: 23:18

It's that crash course that we were talking about, right? It's a com and you're it's you know, it's something new every day, every week. You learn something new, and then you either have to unlearn something or relearn something. Yeah, right. It's it's such a it's such a crazy roller coaster of everything parenting. And there's like only, you know, whether you're you're raising a child or have raised a child who has special needs uh or a, you know, uh, what do they call it, typical or atypical, right? Whichever one you're raising, there's like this core between all of us, which is we never ever stop worrying or thinking about our children and and you know, wanting to protect them and nurture them and just give them the best life possible. So that's that's the tie that binds every single parent, no matter what the experience is. And I love your grace in saying that, you know, your challenges were just simply different, you know, and it's not that um mentality, which it's very easy to get into the mentality of, well, you don't know what I'm going through. You know, my challenges are harder than yours, and my experience is harder than yours, and to to actually be able to step back and go, everybody's got them. They're just different, they're just different from each other's and and I and I think that's powerful.

SPEAKER_02: 24:34

Yeah, that's um, I think like how can you that I was I hate to admit this, but I used to be one of those people that would offer unsolicited advice. And Johnny showed me what I sounded like when people started to offer me their unsolicited advice about and I'm like, oh, is that what I sounded like? I'm sorry, everybody, I forget that.

SPEAKER_04: 25:02

We all do it because we all we all everything is, you know, everybody has such clarity when they're looking across the fence, right? We can see everything that's going on and and fix everybody's problems. Like we just know how to fix everybody's problems. Why don't they just listen to us?

SPEAKER_02: 25:19

Oh you know, one of the things too about Johnny is um he taught me also to look at others um that hurt me um as special needs as well. Maybe they're emote have emotional special needs, right there. And I began to as I learned adaptations with him, I began to try and apply it to other well, to everybody else. Um and if someone didn't think like me, guess what? That's the way God made them. Yes, that's it. And we went for pain, they've got hurt, and and you don't have to be in an abusive situation, of course. But it it helped it helped forgive a lot.

SPEAKER_04: 26:08

Yeah, yeah. What it ends up being such a gift, right? And in every possible way, like the the hardest things of your life end up being a gift when you don't even know that they are, right?

SPEAKER_02: 26:19

Absolutely, absolutely, and it's a choice, every moment of every day, you know, to see the gift, because there are days when I think I've got this in my one of my forewords, and it is, you know, some days he's just this angelic little boy, other days he's an energy sucking vampire. So yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's kids, right? That's kids, yeah. That's a kid, it's not just 100%.

SPEAKER_04: 26:44

That's so true. How old is he now?

SPEAKER_02: 26:45

He's 21 now.

SPEAKER_04: 26:47

Oh, yeah. Yeah, they never stop being our kid, you know, our children. They're they're not kids, but they're always our children. So no matter what the circumstances, we drive them crazy, they drive us crazy.

SPEAKER_02: 26:59

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04: 26:59

Mutually, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 27:03

Well, it's uh an interesting uh it it's really, you know, it's really actually uh one of the great gratitude, things of gratitude about it is is um being uh able to I I find it interesting how often I can use what I've learned with Johnny to just about any other situation that someone's going through because it's really you know the it's just a different story, but it's the same lessons learned. And uh he's he's my boy. Oh my goodness, he is.

SPEAKER_04: 27:40

I love it. I love that. He's my boy. I love that. Oh yeah, his yeah. Oh yeah, stop your heart, right?

SPEAKER_02: 27:50

Well, when he smiles and laughs, the whole universe laughs with him. It's it's unfettered, right? There's no because he's also cognitively delayed, and so there's no, there's no filter, right? No filter, no filter.

SPEAKER_04: 28:03

Yeah, yeah. It's a terrifying and wonderful thing at the same time, isn't it? Yes, yes, because it's so genuine. Every emotion is so genuine and so true. Yeah, absolutely. Wow, and sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02: 28:18

No, no, no, no, I want to hear what you were gonna say. Go ahead. I was just gonna say, you know, his differences gave me permission to be different as well. Because we were, you know, when you're out in public and he's grunting like an animal, you're like, hi, that's us. Yeah, and it just you know, you get used to not looking like everybody else. You get used to, and it's been that's been such a gift. That's why where I was saying earlier about anxiety. I just don't have it anymore with regard to what I think people think about me. And uh it's a good feeling.

SPEAKER_04: 28:52

I mean, yes, it is tremendously so. And and I and I know, I know how hard that is, especially, you know, you're it's your first child, so you don't have that experience of, you know, kids, kids do what kids do. They throw in tantrums in the middle of the store, you know, they're acting wild, they're breaking things, they're doing all of the things, and you are that red-faced parent, just trying to stay face and have some grace and be calm, and you know, you're gritting your teeth so hard that your jaws hurt, and it's like, oh, and everybody's looking and all of those things. And I remember I was a really young mom. I was uh just turned 21 when I had my first daughter, and and I was that young mom. I was, you know, a people pleaser, you know, all of the things. So everything was embarrassing to me. And I wish I could, I wish I could go back in time and be the person I am now.

SPEAKER_05: 29:52

I know, right? Totally.

SPEAKER_04: 29:55

Because I probably yeah, oh my goodness. So oh that 2020 hindsight, right? But yeah, you know, and to be able to say and to look somebody in the eye that's staring or giving a dirty look or something and and doing, you know, like you like you did, hi.

SPEAKER_02: 30:11

Hello, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's uh not happy. Yeah. But you know, another thing that having him out and about, I get to see people's hearts open up. Like uh one of his respite workers once took him to the mall and he says, you know, he says, pushing someone in a wheelchair is very different than pushing a kid in a stroller. He says, when you're in a crowded place with a stroller, you're all just kind of trying to get through there. He says, but when you show up with a wheelchair, he said the red seas part. And I was like, that's awesome. That is right. It's have an extra measure of kindness. Um and it used to bug me, to be honest, because I felt like they were feeling sorry for me and I was still in a lot of denial about that I was okay with this when I wasn't. Um but uh it was beautiful to see how uh he actually expanded other people's worlds and hearts. And it and I began to realize, you know, our culture is so geared towards the intellectual pursuits, how you can contribute in a physical and tangible way. And it's like, yeah, but we need these people like my son because they contribute intangibly, right? They keep the heart, they keep the heart open if if you let it and balance the intellect and mind, right? And because that's what would make a truly, I think, functional society is that balance of heart and mind, right? And soul. And anyways.

SPEAKER_04: 31:46

Yeah, no, that's so true. That's so valuable. And and I agree with you uh so completely. I remember having a conversation with somebody one time. Uh, we were talking about a specific person with um their their child um who's pregnant and they found out that the child was gonna have Down syndrome, and it became, as it always does, this big conversation between people who it's none of your business, you know, but it was a conversation, you know, that what was best for the child, you know, do it do they go forward, do they not, all of these things. And and I remember just being so sad that it was even a conversation that like that how does you know, and the comment was that bothered me was, you know, well, what kind of quality of life will they have? And my response to that was, well, who are we to judge somebody else's quality of life? You're judging, you're measuring a quality of life based on your standards of what you think quality of life is, and you know, and value and what they have to offer. And it's like, oh, no, no, no. And this is, you know, such a wonderful proof and example of that, that this this is a quality, this is a contributing quality life. You know, that's given so much to the world around him, and that goes for every child with special needs, every adult who is grown up with special needs. Um, they they are they are the treasure. They are the treasure. So yeah, I I I thank you for um you know for being outspoken about that and sharing your own experience with it. A little a little bit about the book. Tell me tell me what you want people to take away from this book. Dojo John John in particular, what would you like for people to take away from this book?

SPEAKER_02: 33:39

Feel what you're feeling, but it's okay to feel what you're feeling. Uh the uh entry where I I lost it. Um I I hesitated whether to put that in or not, but it's like I used to feel that if I gave in to my anger, uh I would get sucked into this abyss and never come out. And so that was one of the reasons it took me so long to finally let it all out. Because I was afraid of getting trapped there and being angry because I've not been an angry person. Um so I just but I I gave myself permission to feel what I was feeling. And I uh in my upbringing, uh you know, you've got to rise above and trust in the Lord and all that stuff. Uh and I felt like I'm not allowed to feel what I'm feeling because I have to rise above it. And I found that trying to counter fearful thoughts with any kind of a thought just kind of threw gasoline on a fire. And um it's I I that was uh that was a huge thing for me with Johnny uh was giving myself permission to be real and come out of denial and admit that you know what, no, no Lord, I don't like this. I'm not happy about this. But even though I could see the gift it was, I just had to get that crap out, right? Yes. And also it's it's also I would say peace. Um Johnny was is was the vehicle of unlearning everything that I ever knew. And um I had to let go of clearly uh dearly held paradigms. Um it's surrender. It the path to that peace that passes understanding is surrender of your ideas. And that again, I was feeling like, oh, who will I be? And so well, it's too painful to it's too painful to hold on to what it's been. And I just have to let go and let God in a deeper way, because I just don't know my way through this one. And I don't actually know who I am. I thought I knew who I was, but I don't actually know who I am.

SPEAKER_04: 36:09

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02: 36:11

And it was okay. It was okay. Like this is where I love chatting with people um when they're facing their own problems and fears. And just it's okay, you know, you've got a safe space here. Say what you need to say. If it's the ugliest thing you've ever had or uh the ugliest thought in your head, just get it out, you know. Um you're it's okay. God will still love you. And and uh and I love you too, you know, so it's all good. You gotta get it out. You gotta so peace, uh peace and authenticity, I suppose, to to be authentic.

SPEAKER_04: 36:50

That's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you for creating something and putting that out in the world for people who need it, because it it will and does clearly um resonate with so many people and gives them that that reassurance and that comfort that they're seeking. So this is it to me, this is like your your own ministry that you're doing and you're really ministering to to so many people by showing the whole picture and not. Yeah, the ugly bits too, right? Yeah, and I think you know, I that is where growth comes from, right? You know, we talk about that with kids in general, that you know, kids who uh have been given a cushy, soft life without any strife and struggle usually have most problems than anyone else, you know, because they don't know how to cope. They don't know cope with anything. So it's like you you get then kind of like you said, and I'd like to talk a little bit, if you don't mind, uh, about your upbringing you're growing up, and because it it's it's so fascinating how you went from there, um, kind of stepped away and then kind of came back full circle to your faith and and really connecting on such a deeper level despite. Now, correct me if I have this wrong, you grew up as the daughter of a Baptist minister, right? So that that upbringing uh lends to everything that you just said, and and somebody who's an outsider to that type of upbringing, um, I don't know what that looks like. So you gave me a little bit of insight, which really makes perfect sense. Um it sounds like your your faith then, and you please correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like your faith then was kind of like not commanded, I hate to use that word, but for lack of a better one at the moment, like almost commanded, like almost expected and automatic to what yeah, it was just going through the motions, right?

SPEAKER_02: 38:41

Just going through the motions when my dad uprooted us and moved us across the country and uh left the church that he'd been at for 30, oh no, I guess maybe 20, I don't know, 20 years. And he wanted all his kids, he wanted to baptize all his kids before he left. And so, all right, you know, right, sure. Yeah, you just okay. And and I knew the words, you know, as I had grown up with it. I knew what to say, uh, but it was never internalized. It was always something outside of myself and not really understood. Uh, I never really I just went along. I was an agreeable. Well, some people may disagree with that.

SPEAKER_04: 39:23

Listen, I'm not gonna let your family members comment in their comment section. I'm gonna know exactly who they are.

SPEAKER_02: 39:28

Um, I was um I one of the things too, uh my parents were always busy and they were never home. And so I had a lot of freedom. And so I um took full advantage of that. And then, but then when we moved, that was pretty devastating uh because we moved across the country and had to start all over again. And um I adapted uh and made it my new home. But then three years later, my dad took us back across the country. And I that was I was mad. That was where it was like how old were you? How old were you now? I was 13 when we moved the first time and 16 when we moved the second time. Yes. Yeah. So I was mad. And that was the beginning of uh a lot of uh a lot of uh questionable behavior, questionable behaviors, prime ages right there. Yeah. Right then that was uh and so when I moved back to Toronto, um I just I I remember thinking, well, who am I without the influence of my family? What does God look like when I'm not hearing the jargon, you know, the religious jargon? And what what uh and then of course grandpa died, and that was like, okay, well, we're gonna find out. I mean, I didn't say that to myself, but sure that's kind of what happened. That's where it all started. And um yeah, it was I I don't as far as growing up a preacher's kid, I well couldn't wear jeans or couldn't go to movies. No, no, those were all no. Okay, there's no every single one of them. So I wore jeans. Um but uh yeah, it was I it's in conversations with my sister, uh, you know, we have very different recollections of the same experience. Okay, and I find that interesting. Yeah. So the age difference between you? Just three years. Yeah, but my parents were away at time. My sister was older and she ended up having to be um the caregiver. So there was a different responsibility expected of her than there was for me. And I took full advantage of that too.

SPEAKER_04: 41:56

I I think you and I might be almost the same person. I've been older brothers. That's the difference. Approximate same age difference, and yes, I was I was trouble. I was trouble. Yeah, yeah, high up.

SPEAKER_05: 42:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 42:15

I love, but you know, I really love hearing journeys like this. And I hear this often from whether they're preachers, preachers, kids or um just kids that grew up, adult kids, I should say, adults who grew up uh in especially religious homes. And I hear so often that they grew up super, super religious household. Then they, when they got to a certain age, usually like the teenage years, right? That they stepped completely away from it, wanted nothing to do with it. I'm not suggesting that you wanted nothing to do with it. I don't know. Um, but okay, but they stepped very much away from that and then in some point in their adulthood came back around and almost like reintroduced themselves to a relationship with God and saw it in a very different and truly wonderful light. And I and I just find that really, really fascinating and actually just really heartwarming to hear that they came back to came back to God and built that relationship with Him rather than with religion or religiosity, right?

SPEAKER_02: 43:22

Yeah, it was um growing up, I was never allowed to if I had questions, it was just a Bible verse quoted back to me. And that didn't mean anything to me. I was like, uh yeah, okay, I'll go, I'll go elsewhere for my emotional support. I mean, I grew up in a loving family, don't get me wrong. But um, it's what they knew, it's how they grew up, uh, my parents. And um I'm very grateful to have had the foundation and uh to come back to it. But yeah, you're you're pushed and you're compressed, and you're you know, when you're so young and vibrant and you know, ready to explode with life, you know. And it's like yeah, tamp that all right down. I had a my best friend growing up, um, you know, her parents would actually let her have a sip of beer, you know. And I know I was like, oh um, or a sip of wine at Christmas or something when she was quite young. And I thought, you know, I wonder, and she never did what I did, uh, that I'm aware of, anyways. Um, and I just thought, you know, there's something to be said for not making it out of someone's reach, perhaps. If it's something they grew up with and they're used to, they might not go off the rails as soon as they turn. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. So true. So true. I I think a lot has changed. Yeah. Um I think a lot has changed uh since I grew up. Um where I think parents are a little more um uh pastoral parents, I guess. I can't speak for regular parents, but I see a lot more emotional support there and more open-mindedness about real life dilemmas and real life as as things are changing around us. And um, you know, I I you know, you asked about the message of the book. You know, both books, the same thing is these two would be discover who you are. My my my motto in life is a paraphrase of Matthew 6, 33, where it says, Um, seek ye first the kingdom of heaven. Uh, I was I was at this same beach where this grove of trees, you know, the wind changed sound. And I was uh somebody asked me, said, you know, if you could only ever give one piece of advice to anyone, I'm like, just what? What? What would it be? And it was this just came right into my head was be the child of God you are the rest of the place. And I realized that was a paraphrase of um psych first, because really without that, we're you're living in a fog. Yes, yeah, like there's so much in life that's tries to steer us away from that knowledge and rediscover the spark of God that you are, you're the creation that he made you to be. So and and then start making big decisions. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04: 46:18

Yeah, but you're so right. You're so right. Because you know, once you know whose you are, not who you are, once you know whose you are, you s you stand up a little taller, right? Yes, like it changes your not only, of course, it changes your worldview uh profoundly, it changes your self-view, you know, because you're child of God and like what's greater than that now. You have this whole different value system. And you know, I I just there's nothing nothing greater.

SPEAKER_02: 46:48

It's just yeah, instead of living life from the outside in, worrying about what everybody else is thinking of you, you're living life from the inside out. Yeah, yeah. What a great way to much more stable place to be.

SPEAKER_04: 46:59

Yes. Oh my goodness. Don't you it brings us right back to our little, you know, wanting to give uh advice or or tell people what to do, you know, to improve their lives thing. Like, oh my gosh, I just want to just don't ask me to apply it to myself. Right? Yeah, no, please don't ask that. Come on. Let's not get carried away. I could tell you. But yeah, it does make you just want to like shake people, like, oh, there's a whole wonderful, beautiful experience. It's just like it's there for your taking, like it's right there for you to just have. All you have to do is receive it, and it's so beautiful. Everybody has to come to that in their own time in their own way. I totally get it, but I still want to take them.

SPEAKER_02: 47:34

Yeah, just like you know what? They'll get it one day because you run out of options at some point.

SPEAKER_04: 47:41

That's so true. Somewhere else goes like I want to ask you the last thing I want to ask you about is um I I think it's so cool that you brought all of this, all of your experiences and all of your learning. And again, doing this thing that you do, Beth, you take it and you put it into others, which is a such a phenomenal thing. And it just, oh, I just want to hug you for it. Um, you are just what I'm giving you a virtual hug. Um you're a Reiki practitioner and now a heartist.

SPEAKER_02: 48:11

Oh, yes. Explain, no, go ahead. Finish your question.

SPEAKER_04: 48:15

Yeah, no, no, no, yeah. Just tell me about that. Explain what that means and and what this. I honestly don't know much about Reiki, so feel free to like give a little read.

SPEAKER_02: 48:22

Yeah, Reiki, I've always been drawn to. It's but again, with my upbringing. Uh I was calling it. Um, but what I learned is that it's just like hands-on prayer in a sense, and uh we are energetic beings, we are people, we we are energy in motion, and um, we don't just have physical bodies, but we have a whole body of emotions and a whole body of thought as well. And um what I've kind of come down to with the Reiki is it's kind of like an energetic massage. Okay. Um, because you know, like our muscles in our physical body, you know, our minds get, you know, and so you just come in with by the power of the Holy Spirit. Like it's something that I I'm I'm not I don't describe it the way Reiki practitioners describe it. I just do my own thing with it. Um I've just come to see it as a smoothing. Like you've if you're stressed out and whatnot, you just you just find you just kind of feel above and you can feel the energy and you can feel where there's nothing because maybe something's blocked, or maybe you know, uh, and you just it's really about just pouring divine love into someone and that's beautiful, and uh making the uh and just smoothing it out. And so far the people that I've given it to uh have said good things. So they seem to like it. That sounds so lovely. Who could not like that? That's so beautiful. Yeah, it's not a it's not necessarily like a hands-on thing, you know. Sometimes you might touch a spot on someone's body or you might not. Um I tend not to. Uh, so it's not um when I say massage, it's you know, it's not a not you're not actually. Okay, no, yeah, yeah, that's fascinating.

SPEAKER_04: 50:11

That's really interesting. I love that, and it sounds lovely. Uh it really you and you just listen to beautiful music.

SPEAKER_02: 50:17

Oh, and I oh, anyways, I love giving a treatment because I get it too.

SPEAKER_04: 50:22

Yeah, I was gonna say that puts you right in that space. It's like it's almost like being in your prayer closet or something, right? It's like yes, and dragging someone in with you.

SPEAKER_02: 50:31

Yeah, how nice. Yeah, come on, yeah. Uh and the hardest part is um heartist, not hardest. Um is uh I never known what I like, you know, since since you're a little kid. What are you gonna do when you grow up? What are you gonna be? What do you want to do? What's what college do you want to go to? What do you want to learn? It's like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, uh, I don't know. I there's nothing that's pulling me or drawing me. Um the closest thing would have been a nurse, maybe, but I just never pursued uh post-secondary uh and what I what I discovered is that you know what? I could just love. Loving, love is my moment, and uh God has made that doable. But then it's not even necessarily like you can work anywhere and just bring love to every moment, and really is what it boils down to is is what what love does this moment call for? And you know, sometimes I fall flat on my face and I don't respond, but I do remind myself and come back to it. And uh so it's it's just living from the heart. One of the most fascinating things I ever heard was that, and I never realized this, is that when we are conceived, the first organ that is developed is the heart. It's not the brain. And so that is our connection from God is through the heart. And so if I can if I can cultivate that within myself and help people cultivate it within themselves, then hey, I'm doing lovely.

SPEAKER_04: 52:04

That's just phenomenal. I just I'm so glad I got to sit and talk with you today. This was so special. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 52:10

Um, tell everyone where they can find your books. Uh, they are on Amazon. Um The Letters to Heaven, you have to type in my last name as well, Harris, H-A-R-R-I-S, when you're doing a search on Amazon. Uh, because there are several books apparently that are called Letters to Heaven. So I'll here. Uh, this is what the Letters to Heaven book looks like. Beautiful. Sorry, I've got a bit of a glare there.

SPEAKER_04: 52:32

No, there you go. Perfect. Yeah. And we'll and I will definitely put the links in the show notes for you too.

SPEAKER_02: 52:37

So then, the don't know John John. For some reason, if you don't put in my last name on that as well, you might get men's underwear. I guess listen, somebody might need to.

SPEAKER_04: 52:51

You know, somebody might be in need of them. So they'll they'll win on all sides, right? They'll get some, they'll get some men's underwear and then they'll go get the book and it'll be all good. They'll be covered, they'll have everything they need.

SPEAKER_02: 53:03

Yeah, I remember they saw them. We're like, what? Well, yeah, okay. If you type Harrison in, you'll wear us in as well, then you're that's okay.

SPEAKER_04: 53:09

Listen, with a name like Elsa, anytime somebody puts my name into Amazon, the frozen comes up. So it's like Oh, right.

SPEAKER_02: 53:17

That's right. Yeah. It did for me too when I was thinking.

SPEAKER_04: 53:22

You were like, who is this crazy lady? Wait, she's Elsa from Frozen? What? Yeah, you're beautiful like she is. Well, see, now I just love you even more. Oh, this was such an absolute joy to have you on. Thank you again so, so much. And uh, I just look forward to reading your books and and sharing them with our audience. Um, and uh, like I said, that it'll be in the show notes for everyone, but I I hope with your next book, because I'm sure there's gotta be a next one coming some point, right?

SPEAKER_02: 53:51

Well, maybe that'll be the letters from heaven when I uh reach that state of supreme bliss.

SPEAKER_04: 53:56

There you go, right? Oh my. I want the first copy. I want the first copy.

unknown: 54:01

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_04: 54:02

Maybe people be fighting for that one, but yeah. Oh, all right, guys. Thank you all for watching. We will see you guys in the next episode. Take care. Thank you for all being here today. Thank you, Elsa. Absolutely. You're so welcome. Thank you. Avita.

SPEAKER_00: 54:15

From small town love stories to battles of truth and loyalty, Elsa Kurt's books follow the same heartbeat. Ordinary people facing extraordinary moments. You'll find romance, drama, second chances, even a peek behind the microphone in her newest release. Multiple genres, different worlds, same thread. Bold truth, real faith, no apologies.