Behind the Badge: The Life and Support of Police Families in Small-Town America

When the blue line extends to the heart of your home, how do you weave the threads of family life with the demands of law enforcement? Cherilyn Eby joins us in a poignant exploration of this very question, offering a window into the world of police spouses. Together, we reminisce about the strong literary connections that brought us together and discuss the impact of a police career on family dynamics, especially in the tight-knit fabric of small-town America.

Venture beyond the badge as we delve into the rich tapestry of community and peer support crucial for first responders and their loved ones. From Blue Bond initiatives to the National Police Wives Association, this episode showcases the remarkable strides taken to bolster the psychological and emotional fortitude of those who serve and protect. As a life coach dedicated to this valiant community, she highlights the importance of fostering resilience and understanding within the walls of one's home, ensuring that families are empowered to face the unique challenges that come with the territory.

As the sun sets on a career in uniform, what plans lay on the horizon for those who've spent their days safeguarding ours? We share laughter and insights about preparing for the shift from active service to retirement and the necessity of cultivating interests that fill the void left by a high-adrenaline profession. Join us for heartfelt stories, hard-earned wisdom, and a celebration of the unsung heroes who stand strong beside those who wear the badge.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:15

Well, hello guys. I am so excited to bring a guest on tonight. This is a I don't want to say she's an old friend, because that makes us sound like we're old and she's definitely younger than me but I'm bringing on my friend Cherilyn Eby. I almost did it again, eby. I said Eby at first and you corrected me, screwed it up again, but that's how I do. So we've known each other now for a little while, like for a couple of years, right?

Speaker 1: 0:39

A couple of years, I want to say since, like 2020 or 2021, something like that yeah, a couple of few then, yeah, so, and on the talk, on the talk, everybody's knocking it, everybody's knocking that poor TikTok, and you know there's a lot of nonsense on there, for sure, but you know there was a lot. There is a lot of good also.

Speaker 2: 1:00

Right, well, and I met you as an author, not as a Leo, wife, sister. So, like started, I'm just a book lover and I read your, I ate your series up because it was phenomenal. And then I messaged you because of a particular moment, and you were very confused, because I messaged you on Facebook, which is my real name. So, yeah, and that, and thus begun, thus began yes, yes, and of course we have the.

Speaker 1: 1:32

We have the Elio spouse, leo spouse connection and you are a long time police spouse as well. How long have you guys been married and how long has he been on the job the whole time you've been married, or?

Speaker 2: 1:45

Well, so we've been married. We were married 15 years in February. Still haven't knocked him off yet. Good times, and he so. When we first started, he was a correctional officer with my father, which is how we met through my father. I like to joke it's great, I married my father's best friend. That's kind of a lot of people are like oh my God, pedophile. No, he's my. He's only six years older than me. He's not my dad's childhood.

Speaker 2: 2:18

Best friend Everybody calm down and so he was a correctional officer and then he's been been. So he was a reserved officer for about five years and if you don't know what for the viewers, if you don't know what that means is it's voluntary, so it's volunteer. He didn't get paid for it. We pretty much had to pay for everything but his actual uniform. We even had to pay for his own service weapon at that time, wow. So he was a reserve officer for about five years and then he went through Academy and then he was with one department for three years and now he's going on three years with the new department, pendleton. He's with the Pendleton police department here in Indiana.

Speaker 2: 2:58

So, which is wonderful, we love it. It's great. We love the. The chief is amazing, very, very officer oriented. So in a smaller town like that, it you can kind of get. It's a hit or miss when you have a small town. You're either going to have small town politics, which is where we were the first time and there was, there was, it was a lot to deal with or you can have the really good small town department that like is for the and the town itself is for the officers.

Speaker 1: 3:28

So it's really awesome around here that is so nice, so nice when that happens, and as we well know it doesn't always happen and it seems to be more rare than common these days, but I like to think that's just perception. You probably have a better perspective on that these days than I do. Do you think that is more common of smaller towns to be more supportive of their law enforcement?

Speaker 2: 3:54

You know, honestly, I think it's kind of still hit or miss and I think it depends on the state that you live in. You know, I don't necessarily want to bring politics into it, but here we go. But you know, if you, you know you live in your, in your, your red states or your blue states, I think you're going to find where there's a little bit more of a conservative side, they're going to be more for the police. And then if you're a little bit more on the liberal side, you know you're going to end up with the. You know, you know you're you shouldn't be policing like that. You don't need those SWAT. You know blah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And so you know we we thankfully, don't live very close to Indianapolis anymore. It's, it's pretty rough down there right now.

Speaker 2: 4:36

The, the city of Indianapolis and then Marion County, have have really kind of cornered our officers. They don't, they aren't able to do a lot of the stuff they need to do, um, and it's not really any fault of their own. They've had their hands tied. But coming out to the smaller towns, you, you get that. You get a little bit more of that freedom, um, and that ability to to trust yourself as an officer, trust your abilities, know that when, when it hits the fan, you're going to have support to to get through that. So I know, through the National Police Wives Association I know a lot of different police wives and so across the country it's it could be a different, a different answer all over the place. Unfortunately, we're still in the land of defund. The police or stuff like that hasn't gone away. Just went off the news.

Speaker 1: 5:31

Yeah, I was just gonna say you know people. I think just because it it gets quiet as far as the news cycle goes, it doesn't mean that it has gotten quiet, it's. It's still very much a factor in, you know, everyday police life nationwide. And, as you said, you know, the more city track you go, you know, the more cities have that issue, then more. So I can't speak tonight, guys, you just got to bear with me. I'm going to sound like a toddler just learning language.

Speaker 1: 6:05

You know, I was with the grandkids for three weeks and you know, and it's just amazing that I'm not talking like you know, miss Rachel, right now I am giving myself a pass here. Guys, I think you're allowed it. Thank you, thank you. I appreciate that. I hope everybody gives me that same grace. Guys, give me that grace. What I'm trying to say is the cities obviously experience a lot more of that versus the towns. Like you said, there is, you know, at least a better chance of there being more community support for law enforcement. And, as you said, you know, we could certainly go the avenue of politics here, go the avenue of politics here, but I guess we'll keep our focus on our law enforcement families and the ways that they are coping, what they're doing, what you're doing. You mentioned the National Police Wives Association, which you are not only a part of, but, as it says on there, you're the president of Blue Bond. Do I understand correctly, that's a like a division of National Police Wives, or is it separate?

Speaker 2: 7:08

So we are a separate entity. However, we are an affiliate. So because we are so small, in the grand scheme of things, there's three of us right now, the things, there's three of us right now. So, because we are so small, when we do do things or we need help, then the Natural Police Wives Association will bring in people if they need to or if we need funds a lot. So when we do do fundraising, we actually do it under them a lot as a partner, and then they kind of hold funds. That way it's still, you know, a donation, because they hold the 503, right, is that what that is?

Speaker 2: 7:50

I think that's yeah, so so they are basically until, until and if, until we get to a point where we are big enough to stand on our own, we'll still be an affiliate, but we won't require quite as much help with them. Our own we'll still be an affiliate, but we won't require quite as much help with them. So I do, like I was telling you earlier, I do wear a lot of hats. So I am the president of Blue Bond, I'm a member of the National Police Wives Association. And then another thing that I picked up, since we've talked in quite a few a little while, another thing that I picked up was I became a life coach with the company.

Speaker 2: 8:27

Yeah, it's a company called first responder coaching and they specialize in helping specifically first responders. I'm sure I mean we are qualified to be life coaches for whatever Um, but it's we have specific classes that we've taken to help with um, the first responders, and then all of the coaches are in the first responder field of some sort. We've got wives, we've got husbands, we have retirees, we have currents, so, uh, that really helps to. You know, you're talking kind of peer to peer Um, so that that's really helpful. So that's another thing.

Speaker 2: 9:05

That I, that's another thing that I did living out here in the country, like we do, one of the biggest things that we, my husband and I've always really felt very strongly about is having good, you know, being a good neighbor, having good neighbors, having a good relationship with our neighbors, and everywhere we've lived so far we've, you know, at least tried to make friends with the neighbors. The neighbors out here are phenomenal. Um, so we um, although, for whatever reason, our side of the street is zoned a particular way of agriculture to where we can have animals, and the other side of the street is not.

Speaker 1: 9:41

So yeah, so we're partnering, we partnered up with them because the wife across the street is not.

Speaker 2: 9:44

So oh yeah. So we're partnering. We partnered up with them because the wife across the street wants to do like goat milk and stuff for cheese and you know stuff, and they always have a huge garden, so we're gonna help, you know, put in for the garden, and then we're gonna have the goats, and so we're just we. You know, we, we barter. Back and forth is really what it is, but it's. It's a great relationship to have and we have a lot of fun together and we drink and we play cards and that's great.

Speaker 1: 10:09

So it's just another one of those living my dream life. We're absolutely, and all those years ago that, the last time that we talked, when I first started my show, I guess I should have mentioned that. When I first started doing a podcast, it was by a different name, it was called Blue Family Unity and it was geared solely towards law enforcement, families and life, and it just kind of grew and expanded and kind of morphed along the way. But we had talked way back then on the show and at that point I think I had said to you even then that you're living my dream life with the farm and the animals and all that things. I don't know, I think at this stage I might be too lazy to actually do the work of that. I might be the one that kids. Yes, I know that's right. I've got three grandkids now and they're already used to farm life. They're already doing that.

Speaker 2: 10:59

So there, you go, I'll get the animals, they'll take care of them. When our, when my husband first started with the police department up here, we lived in the town that he worked at. Oh, and I don't know if it's like I don't know, people have the audacity. They will just come up to the house and knock on the door and be like, can we? I need you to write a report? I'm like, sir, I'm not on duty. Yes, maybe you should call a non-emergency number but you're right here.

Speaker 2: 11:27

Yeah, but I'm not on duty and I'm not going to go on to duty.

Speaker 1: 11:39

So I have heard more often than not that working in the town that you live in is not as advisable for all of the reasons, cause it's. You know there is quite a bit of awkwardness there. You know, if you have to, I mean, let's call it what it is If you have to arrest somebody on a Saturday and then you have to see them in town in a restaurant, you know, wherever the case may be, if you have to see them after, you know, maybe your kids go to the same school and you're dropping you know there's a lot of uncomfortable moments there that would be better off avoided if possible Right.

Speaker 2: 12:07

Yeah, there there were a couple of um, I don't, let's, let's have them spend the night at our house, right, okay, of course they were littler, so they were like gung ho about it, but yeah, there were. There was quite a few times where my husband would come home and be like, so let's just have them come to our house.

Speaker 1: 12:25

Yes, yeah, it gives you you know in some ways, especially when you have kids. It's good to know these things, but you know in a very general, broad sense. So many times you'd just rather not know, like you'd just rather not when it comes to your kids. You absolutely think, thank God that you have that insight and that you know, and that you know. You know where your kids would maybe not be in a good situation because you have that insight, knowledge.

Speaker 2: 12:51

But generally speaking, it's so awkward to know things about you know people like that and navigating, navigating the police life with kids is can be somewhat tricky, because you know you want them to be proud of their parent that is an officer and you want them to be able to speak of them as their hero but at the same time kind of teach them that not everybody has the same point of view and that there are certain times where you're just going to it's just not going to be, maybe appropriate isn't the right word, but it just may be something that you should keep to yourself a little bit until maybe you know the person and you know it's. It's as they grow up they can kind of feel it out for themselves. But right, when they're little, um, it can be a little difficult. Yeah, and we've been and having to explain a lot of other you know a little just kind of life in general with them.

Speaker 2: 13:48

I know it's been a couple of years now but we had the officer right here in our County uh, no, sean of Oz that was um killed and that hit that was just the town above us and you know the guys worked with him and he was on night shift. So my, he was new on night shift so my husband hadn't been able to work directly with him. But they all knew each other, love each other and it could have been my husband and like that's kind of where I went with. That was because that could have been his night to work, except that was the same night his chief was getting married, could have been his night to work, except that was the same night his chief was getting married. So like we were all, yeah, so it was. It was kind of a. That conversation was a little harder because it was all right here in our face.

Speaker 1: 14:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so different, the things that you as a law enforcement family have to prepare your kids for or discuss with your kids, that you know other people don't necessarily have to have those types of conversations, and you know, and I think you know, they're all sad and unfortunate in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1: 14:55

You know, particularly having to teach them discretion, like you said. You know in who they tell that their, their, their parent is a police officer and you know, and, of course, when there's a line of duty, death, you know how do you approach that, how do you handle that. And then just the you know the hatred and or or plain apathy towards law enforcement that people express and have no problem expressing, expressing to children. You know, and it's tough and you know and it's hard, it's harder when it's kids saying it to other kids. You know somebody's had a bad experience and they, you know, they only know, they only know what they know. And I and I get that, and I know you get that and you know you try to to to give that grace, to give that empathy that people are all coming from their own perspective, their own experiences. And I and I know actually from what I've read on on your stuff um, you actually do quite a bit of community outreach in kind of bridging that divide, right.

Speaker 2: 16:02

So, uh, we we kind of took, we kind of took this past year off. It's, it's um, uh, some some family things uh, made it a little crazy. Um so, but we're starting back up a little bit this year. A couple of the things that we really love to do is, um, we try to do like a Halloween, like blue boo kind of thing, uh, and that's always a lot of fun because we, you know, bring the fire department in, bring the police department in, and then the kids, can you know, do we had pumpkin carving and we had food and everything, and it was, you know, it's really just trying to to get people to interact with everybody, just so that you can start building your own opinions on law enforcement, because you're meeting the people, You're not just seeing them walking around in a uniform. We also do we like to do a thing with Santa, and this year we're actually going to partner with Friends for.

Speaker 2: 16:56

Paws yeah it's called Friends for Paws. She, the lady that runs it, kelly she kind of acts like our areas of animal control because we don't have, and so that's how she that's how we know her through the police department is because you know they'll get called on a dog running around and they'll be like, okay, well, let's call friends for pause and they'll come pick her up and so then she goes through the process of adopting it out and so we're we're working together on doing a pancakes and pajamas fundraiser in December. So and yeah, I kind of try to get my hands into different areas. I know there were some youth activities with the Natural Police Wives Association that we've done just to kind of network here in Indiana and get our name out and get people to know who we are.

Speaker 2: 17:49

Our goal and our purpose here in Indiana is just to support first responders. I know we're called Blue Bond, but we support all first responder families. So if there's a critical incident that we can help with, we definitely reach out. We talk to departments just to say, hey, we can come and help, we can come offer assistance. I've had training in critical incidents to help manage them, monitor them, that kind of thing. So if a smaller department doesn't exactly know what they're supposed to be doing or doesn't know exactly what they should be doing, then you know, people like me that have been trained can come in and say hey, we can help you, you don't have to do this alone.

Speaker 2: 18:32

We also have a lot of groups that we work with to help, like peer support. So we all know that first responders and police officers they don't like to talk to people, especially not civilians, as we love to call us. So we partner with groups that are peer to peer, so it's first responder to first responder. You never have to talk to a civilian and so you know, I don't care if you don't talk to me, I care if you talk to somebody. So let's, let's help you out. We. We just try to do what we can where we can, and that's pretty much the goal.

Speaker 1: 19:11

It's. You know, it's so incredibly valuable what you do and valued by the people who receive those services and that interaction, because, as you well know, this is still relatively new. This type of the peer care is relatively new. And what I mean by new is, you know, somebody like, oh, it's been going. You know, I've been hearing about this for a little while now. You know, five years, I don't even know 10 years might be pushing it, but at least five years where some of the stigma has now been removed, but it's still. You know, as you said, it is still.

Speaker 1: 19:50

They don't. They don't talk because, you know, admitting weakness, it it could affect their job and their mind. You know they're afraid to uh, speak about their difficulties or and and feelings and all of those things, because you know if they're viewed as being, um, you know, unstable, you know, then then that could affect their career. So they bottle everything up and and of course it's not true anymore, it's not the way it works, obviously, if there was something massive, you know, critical going on. But yeah, the resources now are so improved and so tailored to what they actually need and what they'll actually be able to respond to, you know, rather than, like you said, a civilian coming in and saying talk to me.

Speaker 2: 20:35

On to you know, rather than, like you said, a civilian coming in and saying talk to me, tell me how you're feeling. Yeah, Okay, I know exactly how to help you. No, I don't.

Speaker 2: 20:43

I might have sympathy but I don't know what it's like to to to actually be the police officer or the first responder. You're right, it's, it is. It is a very slow it is. It has been a very, very slow process. But, um, you know, the, the people that we know and work with, have just kept trudging along and getting in there and you know, there there's not a lot of people talk about them. So, you know, people don't really know what's going on, but there's a there's different, there's different um layers.

Speaker 2: 21:13

So there's some place, you know, like the, the national police wives association, we are geared towards the spouse, the wife, and one of our, one of our major sayings is we are our first responders, first responder. So when you know we, we have to be the ones looking out for them, looking for signs, looking for way, you know. And then how do we help them? Because, again, they're macho, even even the female officers. You know, I'm macho and I can handle it and I can do it. It's part of the job, this, that and the other. So, as spouses, we kind of have to learn how to get them either help or to talk, or, and then how do we get the officers to understand that we can handle it. You don't really have to. You know, you don't have to hide a lot of stuff. I mean, if you don't want to tell me all the intimate details, that's a hundred percent okay, but you don't have to do it alone.

Speaker 1: 22:09

And that was a great point too that you just brought up that.

Speaker 1: 22:13

You know, a lot of times that's the mentality too. You know, it's not just that they bottle it up because they just can't or won't talk about their feelings, their role, their natural inclination is to be protectors and the most important thing in their world is their family, their spouse, their children. So in their minds, by not sharing all of the things that are going on inside them and just venting, just venting, they think they're protecting their spouses. But you know, what they're doing is is just making such a toxic stew inside inside themselves and probably draw not just probably, definitely, you know, creating a divide between them and their spouses, because as a spouse, all you want to do is help. You know, and if you don't know what's going on, so it's like that vicious cycle. So it's it's so amazing that organizations like National Police, wives and and and Blue Bond as well, that's helping bridge those and give, give those tools really to both spouses and and law enforcement to be able to communicate effectively. I think that's a big thing, right.

Speaker 2: 23:25

Yeah, and so, if you don't mind a plug, since this like leaps right into that. So the National Police Wives Association is actually having a summit again. So they had a summit a few years ago and it was a leadership summit, so it was really just for the affiliates. That's where we learned our critical incidents, training and things of that nature. But this year they are doing a little bit different of a program and the theme is empowerment, right? So the summit is from May 31st to June 3rd, which is coming up, so so on their Facebook page there's some more information on it. And this year is something different that they're also we're also doing is we are actually going to allow daughters ages 13 and up, but it is a nationally, you know it's, it's, it's a nationally advertised thing. So I will be there, hopefully for at least all but one day, I think, is when I'm going to be there and then you'll get to meet.

Speaker 2: 24:28

You know if you, if you get to go, it's just they're wonderful women, they're wonderful people, so but that is an opportunity where you can, as a wife they're wonderful women, they're wonderful people, so but that is an opportunity where you can, as a wife and even as a daughter, learn how to be empowered in this life and be empowered as a as a police wife or police daughter, and the training is amazing and the leaders are amazing. So definitely something to check out if you're interested in it Awesome.

Speaker 1: 24:49

That is so, so cool. And you know I love seeing like that, things like that, because and you know I love seeing like that, things like that because you know, as as we well know, that if, if they have, they being our law enforcement spouses, our husbands, our partners, if they have that safe structure, that safe Haven at home and that foundation where they feel peaceful and comfortable and you as the spouse understand it just creates that that.

Speaker 1: 25:17

You know there's no such thing as perfect, but as perfect as possible environment you know, right, like there's no such thing as perfect, but um, but creates, you know, and I hate using words like safe spaces, so you know it, bear, you know forgive me for saying something along those lines. Thank you, you know what I mean. Like we call it, we call home the Haven, like home is the Haven. That's where you know you're, you're free to express your feelings, talk about what you want to talk about and not talk. You know it's, it's very so.

Speaker 1: 25:47

You know, we started like a thing a long time ago. Now we don't even bother with it because it's such a natural thing, but you know, it started at one point, when I was new to all of this, you know, I would say, you know, if I knew it was a rough day, um, I would say, do you? You know, do you want conversation? Do you want silence? You know, like, let me tell me what you want and and that's what we'll do. And and you know he's, he's, has been, he's a. My husband is a long time police, so he's been on the job for 35 years. I thought he retired.

Speaker 1: 26:14

Didn't he retire?

Speaker 2: 26:15

When is he retired? Not yet, not yet, not yet I could have swore I saw that he retired.

Speaker 1: 26:22

I must've been looking at somebody else's face. Yeah, no, no, I'm like, I'm willing it. I'm willing it. I need to get to Florida, man.

Speaker 2: 26:26

How many bugs do?

Speaker 1: 26:27

we need to put in his ear, right? I know I'm like you know don't tell him we won't let him watch this one.

Speaker 1: 26:40

I have subliminal messages going on at night while he's sleeping like retire now, retire now. He's also in a small department. Now he went from a big city department, retired from there. Now he's in a smaller department. Who knows, he says a lot of things. I think it's just humor. We have always played this game of you know, I would say two years, he'd say three years, I'd say one year, he'd say two years of you know, I would say two years, he'd say three years.

Speaker 2: 26:57

I'd say one year, he'd say two years. You know, yeah, yeah, you know. Statistically, though, and unfortunately, it has shown that when officers and first responders retire, they actually kind of just blah out, because they're so used to being moving and up and in it, and you know their, their stress is up and they're just everything and they're boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then they retire and they don't have any of that. It's almost like you know, running a car into a brick wall.

Speaker 1: 27:24

It doesn't turn out very well.

Speaker 2: 27:27

So a lot of different life, right Like yeah absolutely yeah, one of the one of the big, of the big things we were trying to do ahead of time is to have things to do like the barnyard.

Speaker 1: 27:41

Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 27:42

Stuff to, to kind of take up that, that extra slack to where you're not just sitting at home and eating bonbons on the couch, because you know he's six years older than me, so he's going to retire and I'm going to still have to go to, I'm going to have to be the sugar mama. Yeah, he'll be at home eating, watching, like NASCAR and golf or something, right?

Speaker 1: 28:03

Yeah, yeah, they all take up golf, right? That's the big thing. My husband, about five years ago, started playing drums, late in life and you know I always joke and say if he, if he was a kid and did this, he'd be called a child prodigy. Because he just is amazing to me. He just knows how to play. You know, he's one of those people. He just sits down, and he sat down and just was. He knows exactly where to hit everything and, um, it was this rapid evolution. And now he's in like three bands that play out gigs and everything. So he's all set for retirement.

Speaker 2: 28:35

I will be you know.

Speaker 1: 28:36

I'll be a groupie, that'll be. You know he'll be in the bands and I'll be the groupie. But you're, you know, you're so right, you know we're we're joking about it and laughing about it and everything but, but you are 100% right. It is so critical and crucial for them to have a plan, have hobbies, have goals, have, you know, have something lined up. And you know, and it's great, you want to take the first three months, month, six months, I don't care, whatever to just enjoy. You know that you've earned this retirement, that you've earned this time to to chill, but have something, have something planned. Like you've said, it is such a huge, drastic life change for them and it's hard and there are a lot of retired officers who struggled greatly with that post-career life. So, yeah, you made a really important point, so that's fantastic that you guys encouraged that. You made a really important point, so that's fantastic that you guys encourage that.

Speaker 2: 29:36

Yeah Well, and like with my husband, I mean he's wanted to be a police officer since he was in first grade. His mom actually had one of those little books that like every year they'd have to fill it out and it was like first grade police officer, second grade police officer. Something happened in fifth grade. He wanted to be a firefighter, but then the next year he was back to police officer.

Speaker 1: 29:54

So that is mine right.

Speaker 2: 29:56

That is mine right Like you know, it was like oh, brain fart. You know.

Speaker 1: 29:59

Yeah, no offense to firefighters Right so. I love you guys too.

Speaker 2: 30:05

So, like it's just, you know, I think part of it too is, you know, we're going to get these guys that are, I mean, on our department. On our department, I mean, we have, you know, in, well, into their sixties now they could still kick your butt Like, I am definitely not going to try them at all, um, but I think a lot of it has to do with just the fact that they don't know, they don't know who else to be, they don't know how else to be, because this is, you know, for a lot of officers, this isn't a job, this is a calling, this is, you know, they feel it in their soul. I mean, who, who in the heck becomes a cop for their pay? It certainly isn't any police officer that I know.

Speaker 1: 30:45

Um, so no, and it's certainly not for the glory and the the uh, you know gratification and accolades, you know it's not when I was growing up though.

Speaker 2: 30:56

Yeah, I mean when I was growing up, I'm I'm just, I'm 41. I'll say it. I'll say it. When I was growing up it was not I well, I shouldn't say not totally, because I did go through Rodney King and that, oh sure, right, you know, but for the most part it they officers and first responders in general were very supported, I mean, at least up front. I mean, we would be stupid and naive and ignorant to believe that all officers are good and all officers have the best intentions, because unfortunately, just like in literally every other job field, you're going to have your bad apples. I mean, we're not going to talk about the Catholic church at this moment, but, like you, know.

Speaker 1: 31:45

You know prime example, and you you don't. You know as much as you'd like to have that, that crystal ball to be able to tell what somebody is going to do in any given situation. The simple fact is is that it is impossible to know who a person's going to be in those critical moments. You just don't know until you know. You know you can do as much as you can and you know they do as much as they humanly can. So, to ensure that people are who they are supposed to be in their role, and you know, yes, like you said, there's no question about it, there's people that should have never been police officers, who have made it into the academy and, worse, onto the streets, and they, they failed, they failed the profession and they failed their communities and and they failed their peers.

Speaker 1: 32:35

You know, and I think that's, and I think that's the thing that people, um, the general population, failed to understand. They think it's this club of uh, you know, silence, you know the, the blue wall of silence, and does that exist in areas? Absolutely, we know that it does, uh, but in a more general sense, um, no, you know what people? These people worked hard and they're doing a job that they, like your husband, wanted to do since childhood. They're not going to let somebody ruin it for them. You know what I mean Some jerk, somebody who's dishonoring the badge and the profession. So it's not the club that people think it is, and I've said it many times Nobody hates a bad cop more than a good cop does.

Speaker 2: 33:16

Right now and you'd be surprised that that that blue wall isn't really as tall as it as people seem to think it is. They see these, these bad officers doing bad things and they're like, well, why hasn't somebody said something? All the officers just look the other way and that might not necessarily be true. It's just right, there's a lot of layers.

Speaker 2: 33:34

Yeah, there's a lot of layers that have to be dealt with before they can actually fire the cop. And and yeah, I, I, I honestly I don't think that, that that wall is as tall as everybody seems to think it is. I think it's a lot shorter, it's just quiet, what um?

Speaker 1: 33:52

what, would you say I'm kind of spring this now yeah. I don't know Right, I know Right Is there a button that you could like do curse words. I've been good so far I'm so impressed, right, okay, I'll give you. I'll give you like a a nice one, cause we got plenty of things we'd like to say right, they're not so nice. Nice one, cause we got plenty of things we'd like to say right.

Speaker 2: 34:17

They're not so nice. We can save that for another another conversation.

Speaker 1: 34:18

Maybe we'll just have a really good venting one People might really enjoy that we need to TikTok live event is what we need.

Speaker 2: 34:26

We do.

Speaker 1: 34:27

We should do that. We're going to set that up. That would actually be really fun. Now, I'll give a nice one, we'll do a nice one. What advice would you give to law enforcement spouses, girlfriends, fiancees, wives, whatever the case is that are new to this life? What would you tell them to do? Is there a first thing that they should do or just general advice? Whatever you want to tell them, go ahead and tell them, and don't tell them to run. Tell them, go ahead and tell them, and don't tell them to run.

Speaker 2: 34:57

No, in fact. So, ironically, I'll try to make this part a little short. So when my husband graduated Academy, technically I was not new to the police life. He had already been a reserve officer for five years. And so I was sitting amongst, you know, moms and girlfriends and fiances and, uh, you know, they're all, oh, I'm so nervous and oh, la, da, da, da, and they're like they, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 35:25

It was an older lady that just kind of looked over me. She's like you seem to be, you know, handling everything, okay, and I'm like, well, I've, you know, I've been a, I've been a wife for five years, now that I mean, we've been in this life, pretty much our entire relationship because he was a correctional officer first. And she's like you know, how do you do it and is it really as scary and as stressful? And I'm like, well, yeah, I think yes, but I learned one of the biggest things that I learned. It took a while, but I had, I just accepted it. It's, it is a perspective shift and an acceptance of this, this job and this lifestyle and this community. You, if you, if you stress every single day that he leaves, it's not, it's not going to be healthy for you or your marriage. It's not gonna be healthy for him because he or she may be worried about you because it's so stressful. Sure, I, we, we, just right now, we, we really live like if it's going to be his last day, we're okay, we know we love each other, we know where we stand with each other. We understand that, even though it could be his last day and we might've had a fight, I know he loves me, he knows I love him. It's normal.

Speaker 2: 36:44

If you're going to be in, if you are going to be in a relationship here, you have to realize that you're still going to have to have your arguments and your fights. And you're, you're still going to have to have your arguments and your fights. And you're you're still going to have to have disagreements. You cannot just bend over backwards and break and be the walking you know the mat that he walks all over simply because he's an officer or she's an officer. You cannot do that. That is not healthy. But what you do need to be able to do is have conversations maturely and openly and genuinely. Have conversations maturely and openly and and genuinely. And that that's not easy. No, it's not right. You're right For the newbies, I would tell.

Speaker 2: 37:24

I would tell the others, even men, even if you're a husband, I would say look, this job is going to come first, whether you like it or not, especially if you're brand new low man on the table, you're going to get the crap. You're going to have to work every holiday. You're just going to have to accept that as normal. Now, you, you just have to let go. Let go of all of it. You're not going to have birthdays on your birthday. You're not going to have hollow, you know, Christmas on Christmas. Get over it, Cause if you don't, you're going to just it's, it's, it's just going to create so much tension and drama in your life. Just get over it. Just get over it. Yep, yeah, um, the other thing that I would I know right the other.

Speaker 2: 38:03

The other advice that I would give is, uh, learn how to get crap out of uniforms, and not just literal crap. I'm just talking like you're gonna. You need to learn, okay, what gets road tar out of uniforms or blood, or how, how, how is it, what's the best way to get glass out of a uniform? And you know things like that, that you, you nobody tells you how to do this stuff it's duct tape by the way.

Speaker 2: 38:31

Right yourself some duct tape and just run it over to get that glass out. But nobody really tells you that kind of aspect. You don't really think about it. Like, how do you wash a uniform? Well, you just throw it in there.

Speaker 2: 38:43

Not necessarily there's special soaps and stuff out there that you might want to invest in and look into. That will help get the other stuff out that you may not know about. Get that spray for those vests, man, you're going to want that spray. Yeah, those vests can get raunchy. Let me tell you and I think the third biggest thing that I would tell newbies is if your department doesn't have one I'm still working on mine, eventually it'll be done, I swear but if your department doesn't have something called an end of watch packet, I strongly suggest that you find one. There's a few different versions online. Most of the time they're absolutely free.

Speaker 2: 39:31

It's a necessary evil. Again, it's kind of like that acceptance part of this life. But filling one of them out, filling one of them out is hard because you basically have to plan the death before it happens, right, there's a lot of other stuff that goes into it so that you know. You know where your finances are and where your things are, and this, that and the other, but basically it is a packet of information that if something were to happen, you have it. You don't have to think while all of this is going on. You don't have to try to search while all of this is going on. You have everything already ready, it's done and you can hand it over or you can get help with it. Either way, it takes a lot of that.

Speaker 2: 40:12

Oh my God, what are we going to do? What's it going to be like? What kind of songs? Oh my god, what are we going to do? What's it going to be like? What kind of songs? Because you know they they're going to have. What kind of songs do you want played? And you know, do you want, right, what kind of? What kind of, uh, little memorial um displays do you want? And and who do you want to speak? And who do you want to be pallbearers? And I mean it's they're going to be asking you all of these questions and you're going to look at them like I don don't want to do this, I am not in the mental headspace for this, I can't do this right now, but you're going to have to, and this way Imagine, right, yeah, and if you don't want to do it and you put it off and you avoid it.

Speaker 1: 40:46

think about if you don't want to do it right now. Think about how much you won't want to be doing that if, god forbid that time comes and you will not be in the headspace for it. You know, you think you're not in the headspace now to do it because you don't want to imagine that possibility, but God forbid it becomes your reality to not have to figure all that stuff out.

Speaker 2: 41:08

Yeah, yeah, and mine's like totally editable. So like if you change your mind on stuff, you can just it's digital, you can go in there and do that and there's there's a portion of it that actually goes to your department, so it's like an emergency contact kind of thing that the department can pull and you know it has like who needs to be notified and where they live and all of that. So that way again, you don't, you don't have to think about stuff, it's just there. So yeah, I think I think those would probably be the biggest that I mean I could go on and on forever, because let me tell you when I like when I went to my husband's academy they had family day and I was appalled, absolutely astonished and appalled, because we were all in this like seminar room and the guy that said walked up and talked and he's like, well, if you are planning to get married or if you're not married yet, then just I wouldn't even do it because you're going to end up divorced and I'm thinking, dude way to set them up.

Speaker 2: 42:03

Yeah, where is this coming from? Because, first of all, the study about you know police officers and abuse and the divorce rate. Oh yeah, love to bring up that 40% of all. That report Not only is 20 plus years old, now it was also the, the. The survey group was like 182 people.

Speaker 1: 42:28

Yeah, it was like this very narrow study, right, and they excluded. Yeah, there was like all of these factors with that study that basically made it null and void because it was so absurd. But but yet, people, you're right, people, clearly, I've been hearing that quote for as long as anybody's ever known that I'm a law enforcement spouse that that quote has been, uh, you know oh, does he beat you, does he right? Yeah, yeah, it's like you're so dumb, you're just so dumb, I can't even do?

Speaker 2: 42:56

Do you ask surgeons that? Do you ask lawyers that? Did you know that? Did you know that there's actually a higher chance of all of that in teachers, and not necessarily Right?

Speaker 1: 43:07

So and wouldn't you want to. It does make you crazy, doesn't it? Because wouldn't you want to be a part of arming people with the tools to not be a statistic, you know, instead of just saying, oh, you're going to be a statistic. Shame on him. Shame on that guy. Yeah, like I said, I was like I was appalled.

Speaker 2: 43:22

I was just, I was taken aback and I was like, why, why are you, why are you saying something like that? That is ridiculous, but it's not abnormal. I was taught there's other wives that I've talked to that you know at their husband's academies. It's like, just, you know, your relationship is just going to fall apart. Just be prepared for it. And that is a thousand percent not the case. In fact, I think that if there was more support and there was more openness about what it takes to be in this life and how it's actually going to look and affect you and your family, and not just hide it all away so that they don't know what's coming, you know like I don't understand why they wouldn't. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:01

It's just really important, I think, for for anyone new to this life, this life that we live and that we love. By the way, we love this life because there's so much more good about it than bad. The bad just happens to be really big bads. And but if you are educated, if you are prepared, if you have the tools in your emotional toolbox to to navigate this whole process, you fare so much better and you have such a better chance of having a successful relationship. And and that really goes for if you take that to any relationship, you know any, you know career path or profession or calling, in this case, really Right, right, but you know, go in prepared, go in educated, learn, educate, learn, educate.

Speaker 1: 44:50

I mean, I can't stress that enough to go in prepared and communicate, communicate, communicate. Right, just have those conversations, even the ones that are hard, especially the ones that are hard. And, yeah, I, you know anybody listening to and we always, as as police spouses, you know, we always joke about all of the stuff and things the uniforms, the, the hours, the holidays, the, you know, the missed holidays, all those types of things. It's just it's. It becomes when you look at the bigger picture, it becomes so irrelevant I love it.

Speaker 2: 45:20

Well, I'm flipping the script, so what would be your advice? Is there any advice outside of what I said that you would have?

Speaker 1: 45:26

Oh man, so so you know you're such a pro at this, I think you really you nailed it. I mean I would probably go back to you know, and I know it's so all encompassing to give it this kind of umbrella statement, but I always go back to the whole home is the haven. Like your home has to be the place where you come to and he comes to for peace. You know you're not, you're not going to have the chaos there. There's life chaos. If you've got kids, there's chaos, but it's healthy chaos. It's, you know, it's normal chaos.

Speaker 1: 45:57

You know you do have to be a can-do woman. You know you have to be self-sufficient, independent, strong, and that doesn't mean that you have to be, you know, a robot. You know you're not a Stepford wife and I and I know that that you know statement has been made in the past that, like you know, when I say things like that, that you know you do have to kind of be able to you do that kind of. You need to be able to hold down the fort, you know, so that he can go do his job and when he comes home, it's not that he doesn't have anything to do, when he gets home, he's going to have. You know, you can't be that that. You know woman who sits back and says well, I can't. You know, screw in that light bulb, or you know.

Speaker 1: 46:45

I don't know outlet cover until he gets home. Screw that, do it yourself, come on, you're fine. But yeah, you know it's, it's be prepared as best as you can.

Speaker 1: 46:56

And, like I said, that means oh, and you know what I think one of the big ones, and I think you'll agree with me is have a community of women, of people that you can go to, because one of the things that happens is if you're not, if you marry or you're in a committed relationship with a law enforcement officer and you come from a background where nobody else is, you know, nobody else is married Right and and I came from I have that background. You know, a lot of my friends are not. You know, they just have civilian jobs or regular Right, yeah, no that's a good point.

Speaker 1: 47:31

Very good Right. So I would say that you, you know it's good, it's really healthy to maintain those relationships. I don't think you should toss those relationships aside. Maintain them. But they do change, you change, you do change. It does become a little bit harder to relate, I think, to civilian. It's really hard for them to because your life is so different.

Speaker 2: 47:50

Your worries are so different.

Speaker 1: 47:59

So it's OK to embrace all of that and be aware of it. And if you have some balance there are some law enforcement, family, friends to help balance, you know that's great and just make sure you get with with good people, good, good intentions, good hearts, good relationships. You don't want to be, you know, and it's no offense to anybody that's struggling and having a hard time. I'm not saying you should avoid those people. I mean I guess I technically kind of am in a way. In a way I kind of am, but you know again, it goes right back to home is the haven. You protect that above all else and that means you protect him, you protect yourself, you protect your family and you protect your life. And I think when you have that almost that us against the world kind of vibe with, your partner.

Speaker 1: 48:49

you know, and I'm not saying again, because people always read more into something or they misconstrue it into something, or they misconstrue it. I'm not saying you've got a bunker and you're not letting anybody in, but you're putting your life, your family, your spouse, each other first, before everything else, and gives them that security. So yeah, I mean, that was a long-winded answer, that's okay.

Speaker 2: 49:10

I don't know why I didn't think about it. I mean because, just like officers don't like to talk to civilians, I think having a peer to peer network where I can, I can talk to you about this life and I don't have to explain anything, or I don't have to try to give an example of, ok, well, it'd be like this for you, we can have a conversation and we inherently know what that feels like. The empathy that we have is is there and you're right, you shouldn't just write off any of your other relationships. But I definitely think trying to find, you know, other other women, other Leo wives, to just be able to have those conversations when you need to have them, that that's golden. I mean, that's absolutely golden.

Speaker 2: 49:53

So part of how I survive being a, the wife of a police officer and how I have made sure that I'm strong enough for all of this is is what you were saying I can do whatever I need to do. I have, if there's anything that we need to take on, if there's any, any suggestions, any, whatever. My first thought is can I do this if he's not here? Can I? Can I do this if he's not here? Can I? Can I sustain this if he's no longer here, and that again part of this lifestyle that most wives of other, they don't have to think about that, or they it's not forefront in their mind, it's not something that they would have to think of first. And so there is this. There is that that strength that I think that that Leo wives either have to have or have to find.

Speaker 1: 50:40

Right.

Speaker 2: 50:40

I mean, that's kind of, that's just kind of it right there.

Speaker 1: 50:43

Yeah, yeah, I agree a hundred percent, and I think it, just, it, just it just sets you up, I think, for just mental health.

Speaker 2: 50:55

I mean, let's call it, wrap it all up, girl, which is right?

Speaker 1: 51:01

Yeah, I love when that happens. Listen, we are putting a big red bow on the conversation and and just calling it. You know. Law enforcement, family mental health awareness, how about?

Speaker 2: 51:15

that let's, let's contact whatever government official can make that a day and I like the other thing I really wanted to do, which I don't even know how I could begin to do. This is like I want to like have like a big sister, little sister, like I've thought about going to our academy here and like connecting with veteran wives and spouses and whatever, and being like, okay, well, now we've got all these newbies that are coming to the force, you know, do you want to? You know, be like a big, a big sister or a big brother to this spouse and so that they would have kind of like a person right that they could connect with in this, you know, walking in new into this life?

Speaker 2: 51:54

they would already automatically have kind of a person that they could connect with if they don't have one already, and I just put that in my list of how can we do that.

Speaker 1: 52:04

Listen, you know what they say, though you know the saying if you want something done, ask a busy person. So you really are a busy person for the job. I hate to tell you, but you are definitely the person that would make this happen, so I expect that you're going to get me posted on this latest hat that you're putting on right now. Ladies and gentlemen, you're watching a new hat.

Speaker 2: 52:26

And then I'll call you because I'm going to need help to do all of this.

Speaker 1: 52:30

I am down for that, since I'm like basically throwing it at you and like calling you out, you out, uh, in an interview to do it. Yeah, so you can put me right on board for it.

Speaker 2: 52:39

So yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 52:42

Y'all need to. If you don't know what gallows humor is right, go look it up and make it part of your core existence, because that's how you get through everything. Uh, humor, man Compartmentalization and gallows humor are your friends, yeah.

Speaker 2: 52:59

And the scary part is is the stuff that we joke about isn't the bad stuff? If normal humans, normal people, civilians, knew the things that we know and have maybe possibly seen the things that we have seen and heard, that our humor isn't really? It's not that bad guys, not that bad y'all don't even want to know no things that no, we get stuck knowing about like we know.

Speaker 2: 53:28

As police spouses, we know the dangers and the ugliness and the nastiness and most civilians don't ever if if they ever experience from it they're absolutely from it, right, and you know which is the point. Yes, officers are out there and the first responders are out there. It's so that you can, so you don't have to deal and experience all of that and have that in your life. That's why they go out there and help and be so.

Speaker 1: 53:55

Yeah, yes, so enjoy your protection, people. We wouldn't, we wouldn't want it any other way. Really, I mean, we're, we're, we're glad that, um, you don't have to know the things that they know and we know by proxy. We're glad for that. I think all we ask spouses, you know, our, our law enforcement officers don't ask for much of anything from anybody.

Speaker 1: 54:15

We ask I'll ask, I have no problem asking on their behalf to just um man, they're human, give them, give them a little, give them a little grace there, because, uh, you know what they see and what they do and what they're willing to do on your behalf. A complete stranger is is are the things that most of us, myself included, wouldn't do?

Speaker 2: 54:34

no, I just don't know. You don't even want to know what my husband got into last shift. If that's the case, good Lord.

Speaker 1: 54:41

You remember that laundry detergent you got to know about? Oh yeah, yes, yeah, yeah. When my husband says, yeah, I had to throw a pair of shoes away today, order a new one. I didn't even ask, I'm like, yeah, good, good, good, good deal, good, good, good, awesome.

Speaker 2: 54:53

Good deal, yeah, good, and you stop asking eventually because you're just like nah.

Speaker 1: 54:58

Yeah, it's usually like you tell me if you're calling me from work saying that you had to throw a pair of shoes away after a scene.

Speaker 2: 55:14

Yeah, I got them. We've seen enough we have. Yeah, we can figure out pretty much what's going on?

Speaker 1: 55:17

Absolutely yes, it's a different life. It's a different life and, yeah, it's not for the, it's not for the faint hearted people.

Speaker 2: 55:24

No, but it is. And the people that we meet. I mean, I know I'm a little biased, but some of the best people that I know are our spouses of officers, and so maybe it's I don't know just like cops are a different breed, I think we're a little bit of a different breed too. So you kind of you kind of find your people in a lot of ways. I'm really glad I stumbled across you on TikTok, booktok, no less I know, before it was book talk, I had no idea that you had an officer for a spouse until that live and I was like wait a minute too darn funny.

Speaker 1: 56:05

Oh, I love it. I love it, um. So I feel like we got to make this like a semi-regular thing. We should do like regular, um catch-up episodes. Yeah, that'd be cool, that'd be be wicked fun. All right, guys. Thank you so much for watching. We will see you in the next episode. So take care, guys, see you next time. Bye-bye.